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Old 29 Apr 2019, 01:47 (Ref:3900379)   #361
djr81
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This thread's unfortunately be derailed; but would genuinely like to hear from Nissan fans from the Group A days, on their thoughts on how the R32 Nissan GTR was nobbled by CAMS, to try and make the Group A Commodores appear more competitive at the time.
Group A, by the end wasnt Group A any more. If I remember correctly technically the VN never did run under a pure Group A formula - it was always modified. The R32 happened to be one of the last of the Group A cars homologated and was always therefore likely to be the best.

It was a different age anyway. The Wanneroo round had 16 entries in 1992. Mallalalalala may well have been even less than that. The Sandown 500 had to run production cars to get a half decent grid.

Basically the Nissan had to be nobbled for the survival of the sport. A completely different circumstance to now when changes to the Mustang look to be damaging the integrity of the sport.

Anyway I would happily add any of the homologated Group A cars to my collection of one, which is an R32 GTR.
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Old 29 Apr 2019, 01:48 (Ref:3900380)   #362
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Did anyone seriously expect Penske to do anything other than dominate the category? A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

After the changes will they test the cars in the same way they tested them for parity or just make some changes and call it job done. I have never followed what the parity procedure is but by all aero standards and the little I know it is stone age stuff at best. They should ask Penske for a loan of his wind tunnel and hire some independent aero engineers to do this stuff properly. Cost will be a factor but this is a professional racing series isn't it and real racing costs real money. The knee jerk changes being made make the managers of the category look like teachers catching a five year old doing something wrong and scolding them all because they did not supervise the child properly.
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Old 29 Apr 2019, 02:41 (Ref:3900389)   #363
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Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Did anyone seriously expect Penske to do anything other than dominate the category? A simple yes or no answer will suffice.
Yes, was always going to be the case at one point or another....

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After the changes will they test the cars in the same way they tested them for parity or just make some changes and call it job done. I have never followed what the parity procedure is but by all aero standards and the little I know it is stone age stuff at best. They should ask Penske for a loan of his wind tunnel and hire some independent aero engineers to do this stuff properly. Cost will be a factor but this is a professional racing series isn't it and real racing costs real money. The knee jerk changes being made make the managers of the category look like teachers catching a five year old doing something wrong and scolding them all because they did not supervise the child properly.
Without VSC telling us, you would have to assume that the independent aero consultant they bought in, D2H, that they've gone over all the CFD data from all the cars to get an idea of what is happening. Even Dutton over at T8 said that testing in a rolling road tunnel is far better than on a aerodrome.

The stupid thing is, they're testing the cars to 200km/h, not what's happening after. They've bought this onto themselves more than anything by having such parameters. It's red faces all round...

Either way, if the thing keeps winning, they'll only make more of a farce by handicapping it more over the Holden.
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Old 30 Apr 2019, 11:46 (Ref:3900691)   #364
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I also recall a time when Ford supplied it's preferred teams with light weight bodyshells.
It came to light in this crash (2:15) in 1995 when John Bowe's bonnet folded like a coke can. Subsequently came out that the Ford had produced some light weight bodyshells and panels. Still came it at correct weight, but team's were able to decide where to ballast. Think the end result was that the lightweight bodyshells remained eligible, but the position of the ballast was fixed.
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Old 30 Apr 2019, 23:09 (Ref:3900872)   #365
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That’s good, nice to see lessons learned from that. Never good if bonnet’s go up so easy. That’s why we have rules like that in place
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Old 3 May 2019, 12:08 (Ref:3901483)   #366
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I really enjoy Paul Morris’s no crap approach. But seriously, this comment is incorrect.

“Morris claims that there are a number of features which have not been allowed in Supercars before, even when then-homologation teams of other manufacturers attempted to introduce them.
Those features include the lower edge of the rear wing endplates, which has now been snipped, as well as a flick on the plane which hangs off the Mustang’s bootlid that Morris believes functions effectively as a second wing.
“That’s another one of the implements, the tools, that none of the teams have ever been able to use before,” he claimed regarding the bootlid attachment.
“That little duckbill kick on the rear bootlid, it kicks up, creates downforce; that’s never been allowed to be used before from any other teams.
“That’s one of the things when I saw the car and went, ‘Holy moly, how have you let them do that?’ There’s another wing on the car.”

Yeah the Mustang has the extra wing hanging over the back. But so does the Commodore. They both have it. Nissan really needed to pay top dollar to have better design!
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Old 3 May 2019, 18:01 (Ref:3901560)   #367
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No nonsense approach is what it needs. That said he has got a few things wrong and is maybe looking in the wrong areas. He needs to watch what the others do, as they seem to know more about this game.
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Old 3 May 2019, 19:23 (Ref:3901585)   #368
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What areas do you think he should be looking in?
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Old 4 May 2019, 19:37 (Ref:3901852)   #369
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Maybe try and learn from the other teams
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Old 6 May 2019, 02:45 (Ref:3902122)   #370
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Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by kittle View Post
I really enjoy Paul Morris’s no crap approach. But seriously, this comment is incorrect.

“Morris claims that there are a number of features which have not been allowed in Supercars before, even when then-homologation teams of other manufacturers attempted to introduce them.
Those features include the lower edge of the rear wing endplates, which has now been snipped, as well as a flick on the plane which hangs off the Mustang’s bootlid that Morris believes functions effectively as a second wing.
“That’s another one of the implements, the tools, that none of the teams have ever been able to use before,” he claimed regarding the bootlid attachment.
“That little duckbill kick on the rear bootlid, it kicks up, creates downforce; that’s never been allowed to be used before from any other teams.
“That’s one of the things when I saw the car and went, ‘Holy moly, how have you let them do that?’ There’s another wing on the car.”

Yeah the Mustang has the extra wing hanging over the back. But so does the Commodore. They both have it. Nissan really needed to pay top dollar to have better design!
Not sure what PM is going on about, the Volvo was the first to sport this and it was because the CFD was showing that the wing wasn't working properly, not to mention they needed that little bit more to match the rear deck surface as on the Commodore and Falcon.

Maybe it's time that VSC stood in and said to Nissan we want you to step up, what help you need, lets get it and get you guys forward. The Kelly's have great business sense, but somehow i very doubt their racing sense at the moment and what is happening with that car.
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Old 6 May 2019, 03:10 (Ref:3902123)   #371
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The decklid extension on the Mustang is upswept, whereas those seen on the VF, ZB, FG-X and Volvo are flat.

I'm in agreeance about the Kellys. Their politicking of the rules has been quite poor in comparison.
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Old 6 May 2019, 03:17 (Ref:3902124)   #372
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Well that shows more ingenuity and you can't blame them for taking it further than the rest. Just a shame the Kellys need to spoil it by politicizing, not what the series need
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Old 6 May 2019, 03:48 (Ref:3902137)   #373
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Well that shows more ingenuity and you can't blame them for taking it further than the rest. Just a shame the Kellys need to spoil it by politicizing, not what the series need
I think your algorithm needs tuning.
The Kelly Racing squad are the least publicly or privately political with the powers that be of the sport. They ask for nothing, so they get exactly what they ask for. There is something very different around the aero of the Nissan, and that of either the Ford or the Holden... or the Benz or Volvo as it happens.
The Nissan is on its 3rd homologation of aero, and its still looking different...
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Old 6 May 2019, 10:42 (Ref:3902187)   #374
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Ok fair enough. The Nissan certainly needs improving compared to the rest, but it’s done well to get where it is
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Old 14 Jun 2019, 07:44 (Ref:3910009)   #375
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Can't make the Mustang slow enough so now they make the holden go faster, where does all this stop? They wouldn't be helping the Mustang if the holden was winning everything, this is a rort!

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/06/14...ges-explained/
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