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Old 28 Aug 2018, 03:34 (Ref:3846648)   #31
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
No I didn't watch those races so thanks for mentioning 2 out of the other dozen I actually have seen where passing seemed to be at a premium.
So you accept that your comment that this car cant pass anywhere is incorrect?

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I've not said anything about my expectations, but I should have clarified compared to last year, there's less passing, overall.
Outside of the SuperSpeedways I would disagree with this statement.
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Old 28 Aug 2018, 05:11 (Ref:3846659)   #32
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The driver comments certainly reaffirm what I've been noticing; they're on the knife edge all the time.



I think that's the case, just witness all the single car incidents by respected veteran drivers this year.



Is this (knife edge all the time) a good thing or bad? I'm guessing it's been much harder for some of the regulars to adapt to the new aero package vs. newer to the series drivers, simply because they have been so accustomed to driving with much more downforce.



The cars generally seem to need more front downforce in traffic, though they may be fine in clean air. Driver adjustable (or controlled remotely from pit box) front wing angle?
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Old 28 Aug 2018, 10:58 (Ref:3846707)   #33
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So you accept that your comment that this car cant pass anywhere is incorrect?.
No, not compared to last year.


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Outside of the SuperSpeedways I would disagree with this statement.
Okay then.
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Old 28 Aug 2018, 17:00 (Ref:3846753)   #34
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Maybe IndyCar should introduce the Hanford Device, which was used by CART in the late '90s and early 2000s. Its was designed to increase drag, in order to reduce speeds on superspeedways and increase the draft, giving the car behind more of a tow.

This clip of the last few laps of the 2000 Michigan 500, is a good example of what the Hanford Device can do.

https://youtu.be/25bHlzCbLuA

Alternatively, bring these cars back. Just listen to those engines.
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Old 28 Aug 2018, 18:48 (Ref:3846769)   #35
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Except those of us who watched and remember the ridiculous passing and insanity that was DRS before F1 came up with the reverse idea, remember it was universally derided at the time and hated. It's been brought up multiple times this season and every time the powers that be and teams have said a resounding dear god now, that's not better. It was a gimmick to slow the cars at Texas and it was implemented as all gimmicks are, without decent testing or team approval. It needs to stay where it was and they need to come up with a better whole car solution. Oh wait, that's what they have admitted they are working on and developing the df in a different manner to better balance the cars and work in traffic.
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Old 29 Aug 2018, 07:05 (Ref:3846820)   #36
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
No, not compared to last year.
Here's one example of the 2018 car providing way more passing in a direct comparison to 2017 event. I look forward to the next excuse.

https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/07...id-Ohio-racing

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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith
Maybe IndyCar should introduce the Hanford Device, which was used by CART in the late '90s and early 2000s. Its was designed to increase drag, in order to reduce speeds on superspeedways and increase the draft, giving the car behind more of a tow.
Way to artificial - no thanks
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Old 29 Aug 2018, 07:36 (Ref:3846822)   #37
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Pretty sure there has been more passing on short ovals and road courses this year vs. last. I think the aero package still needs some work to get a bit more balance in traffic. Drivers have said that their cars are fine in clean air, then have to crank in a bunch of front wing when they get in traffic. Seems to me that the current spec has done pretty much what it was intended to do: increase passing on short courses and reduce pack racing on bigger ovals.
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Old 29 Aug 2018, 11:03 (Ref:3846854)   #38
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Here's one example of the 2018 car providing way more passing in a direct comparison to 2017 event. I look forward to the next excuse.

https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/07...id-Ohio-racing
Congrats. One excuse out of an overall comment.
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Old 29 Aug 2018, 21:23 (Ref:3846975)   #39
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Except those of us who watched and remember the ridiculous passing and insanity that was DRS before F1 came up with the reverse idea, remember it was universally derided at the time and hated. It's been brought up multiple times this season and every time the powers that be and teams have said a resounding dear god now, that's not better. It was a gimmick to slow the cars at Texas and it was implemented as all gimmicks are, without decent testing or team approval. It needs to stay where it was and they need to come up with a better whole car solution. Oh wait, that's what they have admitted they are working on and developing the df in a different manner to better balance the cars and work in traffic.
I can't say I've read anything this season about the Hanford Device. With regards to Texas, the Hanford Device had been used by CART since the 1998 Michigan 500. The overriding problem with Texas in 2001, was insufficient testing and when drivers started experiencing dizziness because of the high Gs they were pulling on the 20° and 24° banking, in Turns 1&2 and 3&4 respectively, the race got pulled.

I found this article from the LA Times, about the Hanford Device, after the 1998 Michigan 500 and reading the driver's comments, it doesn't sound like they hate the device, infact quite the opposite. At the time and it was 20 years ago, I don't remember it being universally derided or hated.

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/oct/28/sports/sp-36896

It could be seen as a gimmick but considering one of its functions was to slow the cars, after the speeds experienced at Fontana in '97, it achieved that and from a safety perspective, that's far from gimmicky.
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Old 30 Aug 2018, 08:59 (Ref:3847030)   #40
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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It could be seen as a gimmick but considering one of its functions was to slow the cars, after the speeds experienced at Fontana in '97, it achieved that and from a safety perspective, that's far from gimmicky.
Its the overtaking that is gimmicky
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Old 31 Aug 2018, 02:46 (Ref:3847168)   #41
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Its the overtaking that is gimmicky


I yearn for the days when someone, deservedly so, won by a lap or more (quite often, in fact). 'Meant that racing was more than just a show. And, those rare occasions when there was a battle to the end, had much more meaning as it wasn't due to "equalizing' the "playing field". (I didn't know racing was a game to be played)
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Old 31 Aug 2018, 10:35 (Ref:3847199)   #42
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Its the overtaking that is gimmicky
The overtaking was gimmicky. If you watch the 1997 Michigan 500, it was totally different and like what we've seen at this year's Indy 500.
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Old 31 Aug 2018, 14:33 (Ref:3847254)   #43
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The overtaking was gimmicky.
'Still is. Just about all forms of pro racing...for the "show" as opposed to "showing" excellence.
IndyCar with it's spec chassis, bodywork and (at the moment) 2 make engines. Sportscars with their "BoPing". F1 with it's wonderful DRS and penalties for replacing this and that....'won't even bring up NASCAR (aside from all else, '"stages" and "playoffs"? Egads..."game time" eh?) that's been the leader in "showtime"....rather than real drivers, engineers, designers, fabricators and so-on's displays of superiority or inferiority, as the case may be.

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Old 1 Sep 2018, 14:48 (Ref:3847399)   #44
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'Still is. Just about all forms of pro racing...for the "show" as opposed to "showing" excellence.
IndyCar with it's spec chassis, bodywork and (at the moment) 2 make engines. Sportscars with their "BoPing". F1 with it's wonderful DRS and penalties for replacing this and that....'won't even bring up NASCAR (aside from all else, '"stages" and "playoffs"? Egads..."game time" eh?) that's been the leader in "showtime"....rather than real drivers, engineers, designers, fabricators and so-on's displays of superiority or inferiority, as the case may be.
Unfortunately, there's always going to be a certain amount of contrivance. However, it's about that fine line between what is acceptable and what is gimmicky.
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Old 1 Sep 2018, 20:49 (Ref:3847444)   #45
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Unfortunately, there's always going to be a certain amount of contrivance. However, it's about that fine line between what is acceptable and what is gimmicky.
'Understand your point of view but disagree. All of the above, to me, is gimmickry (sp?). Racing used to be about proving who could design, build, develop, compete the best, then do it some more. Now there's nothing but putting on a "show" to gain exposure for the sponsors of said show....sorta' like any fictional movie or show. Hmmmmm....do I see a similarity here?

Nothing more. Nothing less.
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