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Old 18 Apr 2019, 04:29 (Ref:3898327)   #1
GTRMagic
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Supercar Engines...

Are turbocharged V8s coming in the future?

Story

I dont get the maths...

Mr McNamara showed on FB a little while ago for Nulon in a sponsor communication that Supercar engines are actually relatively inexpensive to own and operate.

An engine at say $160,000 and with at-track servicing, and a rebuild schedule at somewhere around 3,000km, for up to $40,000 a service.. for another 3,000km of running, has to be cheap engine source.

Especially one with 650bhp or so... with usually pretty great reliability...

Cheap to keep really....
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 04:48 (Ref:3898328)   #2
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Are turbocharged V8s coming in the future?

Story

I dont get the maths...

Mr McNamara showed on FB a little while ago for Nulon in a sponsor communication that Supercar engines are actually relatively inexpensive to own and operate.

An engine at say $160,000 and with at-track servicing, and a rebuild schedule at somewhere around 3,000km, for up to $40,000 a service.. for another 3,000km of running, has to be cheap engine source.

Especially one with 650bhp or so... with usually pretty great reliability...

Cheap to keep really....
It will be if Bill and the greens get in,
Bill wants electric cars, and the greens want a 17% tax added to fossil fuel vehicles.
cheaper to run, battery swaps instead of fuel , only catch need a coal fired power station to supply recharge

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Old 18 Apr 2019, 14:06 (Ref:3898406)   #3
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Mr McNamara showed on FB a little while ago for Nulon in a sponsor communication that Supercar engines are actually relatively inexpensive to own and operate.
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqfncRRti5s

Useful for existing Ford and Holden runners with piles of stock, but absolutely no help for any new manufacturers or new teams!

I must agree with the general consensus that adding twin-turbos to reduce cost seems an oxymoron!

PS. As a new entrant, I would choose to use 5L Judd V10s -- there is no mention of a cylinder limit under Gen2 AFAIKs. These motors produce 800hp in stock form, so it should be trivial to reduce the output to 650hp. The cost per engine could hardly be much more than the $160,000AUD for these pushrod donks, and it would be well worth it for the sound alone!
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 07:44 (Ref:3898539)   #4
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The Coyote's in the S5000 for example comfortably make 600hp without any internal tweaks and with the addition of the dry sump system, intake and custom cam covers costs around 35k. Rebuilds are minimum 5000km. Current supercar engines are unnecessarily expensive and there's no reason for them to look at much else compared to what is already available as an option to lower costs, especially since Supercars has frozen engine development and placed a power cap on everyone anyway.
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Old 21 Apr 2019, 10:47 (Ref:3898871)   #5
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The Coyote's in the S5000 for example . Rebuilds are minimum 5000km.
Rebuilds for what though? Because they are worn out, or because they have lost their power.
In the class this close if your engine looses 1% of it's power it will need a rebuild or you wont have the speed you need to keep up.
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 06:11 (Ref:3898952)   #6
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Rebuilds for what though? Because they are worn out, or because they have lost their power.
In the class this close if your engine looses 1% of it's power it will need a rebuild or you wont have the speed you need to keep up.
If they were to introduce some new engine regs to reduce costs they could control rebuild cycles like the majority of racing series in the world already do which helps keep it fair and cheaper. If a team needs to break the seal for early repair then they get a penalty for doing so to offset any minor performance gain that may come with it. This works in a LOT of other series and there's no reason why it can't work here too. Some teams with a lot of funding are currently doing internal rebuilds lower than 1500km, more than double that of the majority of other teams which really shouldn't be allowed in a series where technical parity is supposed to be the key goal.
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 07:08 (Ref:3898957)   #7
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What do we do with the probably 100 Supercar-spec engines already in rotation?

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Old 22 Apr 2019, 10:15 (Ref:3898978)   #8
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Same thing you do with anything that inevitably gets superseded with a better alternative. The teams survived the outlay to the new generations of cars and they'll survive the comparatively reduced outlay for donks as well. I'm sure a lot of them will find homes elsewhere.
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 10:50 (Ref:3898982)   #9
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What do we do with the probably 100 Supercar-spec engines already in rotation?

I'll take a couple
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 13:03 (Ref:3898997)   #10
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Same thing you do with anything that inevitably gets superseded with a better alternative. The teams survived the outlay to the new generations of cars and they'll survive the comparatively reduced outlay for donks as well. I'm sure a lot of them will find homes elsewhere.
Wasn't TEGA originally formed off the back of teams not being happy with having to throw away good equipment?
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 13:21 (Ref:3899002)   #11
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What do we do with the probably 100 Supercar-spec engines already in rotation?
www.my105.com
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 14:23 (Ref:3899007)   #12
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A flooded market... just like when the CotF transition happened and a still warm as-raced FG Supercar could be had for sub $120k because so many just-superseded were available at the same time..

Somehow I don’t see the VASC commission as being too excited about torching good money again...
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 21:19 (Ref:3899053)   #13
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Wasn't TEGA originally formed off the back of teams not being happy with having to throw away good equipment?
Such a long time ago (27 years or so) and the fog of time can cloud those memories but yes, that was one issue (not the only reason for TEGA forming but a discussion point at the time).

The difference now of course is that IF such a change came about, the teams would have input into it and be able to plan, minimise the impact etc as distinct from the situation in place when TEGA was originally formed.
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 22:31 (Ref:3899062)   #14
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Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Rebuilds for what though? Because they are worn out, or because they have lost their power.
In the class this close if your engine looses 1% of it's power it will need a rebuild or you wont have the speed you need to keep up.
Just trim out the rear wing to compensate, and as Garry would say, drive faster in the corners and you shouldn't have a problem....
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Old 22 Apr 2019, 22:47 (Ref:3899064)   #15
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Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Honestly, what utter rubbish. Let them bring in the newer/crate motors doing the rounds in the USA. These engines have been developed to a millimetre of their life and capacity...

TRD was somehow allowed to use GM's blueprint for the NASCAR motor they run, as they didn't have anything in the catalogue that was pushrod. Work out between GM and Ford, together with this so called round table, of what other engines would be deemed OK for a new entrant to use and run their DNA over to suit. Yes you might see a KIA power by the GM or something else, but it will allow them to come in flog the product they want.

You can't say that Volvo didn't sell extra units during their time, even thou they didn't have a V8 on showroom floor to sell to the public?? And look at the Camry in NASCAR, again, seems to sell well and not whisper of trying to put something else in it.
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