Rovals - Page 2

**Adam43** · 19 Oct 2019, 04:03 (Ref:3935566)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

Watching Qualifying for the GT3s, I'm even more convinced they should have stuck with the old chicane and treatment for the tri-oval. And as for starts and restarts, the ALMS had it right at Texas; just skip the chicane on the first lap when they're bunched and getting up to speed.

Are the only examples of doing something different on the first lap to rest of the race on rovals?

Purist · 19 Oct 2019, 04:30 (Ref:3935568)

No. At least in the case of chicanes, this isn't a unique thing. They used to omit the final chicane on the start at Porto, and WTCR does likewise at Vila Real. Also, I think the ALMS ran straight through the chicane on Pratt Street at least for the final year at Baltimore on the initial start.

As for starting location, the prime example is Mid Ohio, where the race start is on the back stretch. IMSA did something similar on the street circuit at Columbus, starting the cars on the longer stretch out of Turn 3; that one was especially messy, because the start/restart line was at a different location from where laps were counted, which wasn't the same as the finish line, and again, the pits were somewhere else entirely.

Coach Ep · 21 Oct 2019, 14:20 (Ref:3936081)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

As to next year's IGTC, hopefully they see fit to run the Indy layout that does include Oval Turn 1; since it's longer, and will be an endurance race, it would actually be a closer fit to the FIA's charts to run the longer configuration. Even then, it's still short of the technical minimum listed in Appendix O.

I doubt any of the road course homologations allows for use of oval T1 (just my guess). Either way, I believe including Oval T1 will shorten the length instead of increasing it (see the map in attached link). What is the technical minimum? If the length needs to be longer than the IndyCar layout, they will probably use the T5-T6 loop that was used during the F1 GPs (and that IndyCar bypasses to go directly from T4 to the Hullmann back straight), adding at least a 1/4 mile.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._IndycarGP.svg

Edit: above described lay-out will bring the course length to 2.592-mile according to 2017 SCCA Runoffs event page.

Purist · 22 Oct 2019, 02:27 (Ref:3936162)

Every major series that comes to mind (F1 and Grand-Am mainly) that used the layout with Oval Turn 1 also used the Turn 5-7 loop in the infield, so I just put the two pieces together by default. That layout is officially listed as 2.534 miles, though with the smoothing of the esse before the track heads back on to the oval for the 2015 season, it's marginally shorter, so should be something like 2.530 miles.

Check the SC365 piece linked to in the opening thread post about the Las Vegas course layout. Of note is the part that they looked at a number of different configurations. So it seems there's nothing officially ruling out using banked turns (and Indy's are low compared to most top-tier ovals). However, it also makes me wonder all the more why they selected the version of the roval they did (much tighter than it needed to be; unnecessarily hard to overtake on; and even requiring, in their eyes, a relocation of the start/restart point).

If they're still satisfied with their choice over the other options, then I'm glad that Vegas is a one-and-done deal; however, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in them making a good choice for good racing at Indy next season.

Although there is the caveat that it's technically for official FIA championships, Blancpain GT (whatever it's going to be called after this year) is the de facto FIA GT championship. For GTs, and a race duration of 6-12 hours, the minimum circuit length listed on the table in Appendix O is 4.7 km (2.921 miles). Obviously, even the first MotoGP course was shy of that by 0.3 of a mile. Of course, this means Kyalami already has an exception with the IGTC, but 2.85 miles is definitely closer to the desired mark.

I think it's a safe bet that the Turn 5-7 loop will be included to lengthen the lap from 2.439 (2.435) miles, but that takes away quite a bit from the infield stretch. There's really only one way to keep the lap speed up, give the cars a standout section to stretch their legs, and also alleviate the inevitable traffic issues that will come up in an 8-hour race. And I'm not sure that the final corner of the IndyCar or SCCA Runoffs course is going to quite be flat-out in the GT3s. Also, the difference between 2.592 (2.588) miles and 2.534 (2.530) miles is a lot smaller than the difference between either of those and 2.921 miles. (And yes, comparing GA GT in 2013 to IMSA GTD in 2014, the layout using Oval Turn 1 is faster than the IndyCar variant; the cars were uprated and the track was partially repaved for 2014, but average speed was actually a bit slower.)

carbsmith · 22 Oct 2019, 05:04 (Ref:3936172)

I don't think with Indy's history of tire problems I would use the banking in a series that uses non-track specific tires. It was heavily related to the paving of the track at the time but still why would you not just avoid it entirely?

The straight without the banking is still quite long anyways, like 950m, about 100m longer than the back stretch at Sebring and also about the same length as the front and back stretches at Suzuka. IndyCar was using low downforce setups and had lots of drafting passing going on.

Purist · 22 Oct 2019, 19:17 (Ref:3936296)

I think the very fact that they're going to Indy shows that they want a showcase event in the US, and running the Oval T1 banking will only enhance that aspect.

Pirelli has experience with rovals from their time in Grand-Am, as well as Rockingham with British GT. And assuming they've done anything with GT3s at the Nurburgring, they have experience dealing with extreme and unusual loads. For F1, they have to design for a number of high-load circuits, like Spa and Suzuka, plus they have Zandvoort coming, which means Scheivlak and a new, banked Luyendyk Bocht. IGTC also has Spa and Suzuka, as well as Bathurst with its lateral loads and compressions.

More directly though, they had to bring a tire capable of handling at least some banking to Las Vegas anyway. Ovals with moderate to higher banking have the outside of the apron, before you get to the oval turn proper, banked to a lesser extent. So inside the 18-20-degree main banking at Las Vegas, that outer portion of the apron may be 6 degrees or so. (The tri-oval is banked 12 degrees, btw.)

Sebring's claim to fame isn't its long straights, but regardless, the figure I'm recalling for the Ullman Straight is 0.595 of a mile, which translates to 957 meters, so no it isn't as short as you suggested. I've seen figures of 872 and 975 meters for the front straight of the Indy roval, which is a bit confusing, because that length for both the first iteration of the MotoGP layout and the IndyCar configuration should be the same. Furthermore, while the front straight at Suzuka may be of similar length to Indy, the run from Spoon to 130R is 1,200 meters, not 950. In fact, almost every recent or current F1 circuit has a straight or stretch of a kilometer or more, with some going notably beyond that (Fuji: 1,475 meters); you can add several of the US road courses to that club as well: Road America, Road Atlanta, and VIR to name just a few.

And unfortunately for your assertion based on IndyCar, the SCCA Runoffs layout would throw those low-downforce setups out the window, because with the extra infield loop, you now only have one long straight/stretch, not two. Even if Turn 15 of that layout (T14 for IndyCar) is flat-out all the way, a 3,700-ft run is only 27% of the lap, with no other particularly long straights. Using the current equivalent of the F1 layout, you get a 6,300-ft run, translating to 47% of the lap. So what gives you those compromised setups with IndyCar isn't just the front stretch, but the 950-meter infield stretch (counting from T4 to T7) in addition to it.

Purist · 4 Nov 2019, 17:00 (Ref:3938581)

Well, I was ready to just let this one lie if nobody else had any comments, but, the latest news out of the Speedway kind of changes that.

I have to wonder at least a little if the change in ownership at Indy will have an impact on the IGTC round. Also, I wouldn't want any of the current venues dropped, but this does bring the thought of a return of IMSA to IMS rather further forward in my contemplation.

Coach Ep · 6 Nov 2019, 14:42 (Ref:3938895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

Well, I was ready to just let this one lie if nobody else had any comments, but, the latest news out of the Speedway kind of changes that.

I have to wonder at least a little if the change in ownership at Indy will have an impact on the IGTC round. Also, I wouldn't want any of the current venues dropped, but this does bring the thought of a return of IMSA to IMS rather further forward in my contemplation.

A combined weekend in early May certainly seems to be a possibility for 2021 or 2022. Same might happen at Mid-O.

Purist · 8 Nov 2019, 04:58 (Ref:3939167)

Mid Ohio seems more likely. I suspect IndyCar may still want to keep the Month of May "holy" to their series alone. I guess we'll see.

And yes, in the nearer term, IMSA looks like it could be in the mix, though with the way Roger has talked about some of it, his long game may be looking at trying to get the WEC. I mean, he's specifically mentioned F1 already.