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Old 25 Sep 2014, 22:50 (Ref:3457667)   #31
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Originally Posted by Ephaeton View Post
depends. In the case of Brabham @ Indiegogo, they've specifically set it up so they'll get the money, no matter what.
Indeed: "This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal."

Btw, it has gone up to 60k. Quite a long way to go and the rate always drops after the first days...
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Old 25 Sep 2014, 22:58 (Ref:3457669)   #32
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0.7% of the way there so far.

I'm sure they'll hit the 250k mark. But will they have to immediately then ask for phase two?
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 00:31 (Ref:3457685)   #33
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I think it's a worthy idea and just think of how proud everyone who contributes will feel when the car (hopefully) hits the track. A team that a lot of fans will have a vested interest in will certainly become one of the most popular teams in racing. A team for the people and with the Brabham history behind it to boot.

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Old 26 Sep 2014, 03:09 (Ref:3457712)   #34
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Charity racing?

I would think if David Brabham was really serious about bringing the family name back into top line racing, he would pony up some of the funds himself and use who he is to bring in investors & sponsors?

This seems to me to be "charity racing". I want to go racing but I want you to pay for it. I do not believe this is the way to do it and cannot see it succeeding anymore than I can the Perrin program.

Is the 8 million pound quoted as the funds they want, for a single car WEC LMP2 program, or is it a 2 car deal?

If it's for a single car, I would have to think this is a very high top dollar deal, more than I would say most WEC LMP2 competitors are spending. Something which would further cause me personally to question the whole concept.

But none the less, good luck to him.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 04:37 (Ref:3457724)   #35
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I would think if David Brabham was really serious about bringing the family name back into top line racing, he would pony up some of the funds himself and use who he is to bring in investors & sponsors?

This seems to me to be "charity racing". I want to go racing but I want you to pay for it. I do not believe this is the way to do it and cannot see it succeeding anymore than I can the Perrin program.

Is the 8 million pound quoted as the funds they want, for a single car WEC LMP2 program, or is it a 2 car deal?

If it's for a single car, I would have to think this is a very high top dollar deal, more than I would say most WEC LMP2 competitors are spending. Something which would further cause me personally to question the whole concept.

But none the less, good luck to him.
I'd say any race team with sponsorship or funded drivers is a form of "charity racing".
I believe one of the goals of the team is to acquire outside sponsorship and if they can show the interest in the team, and how many supporters they have and the money so many people have invested, it will really raise the interest of potential sponsors.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 08:13 (Ref:3457748)   #36
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I think it's a worthy idea and just think of how proud everyone who contributes will feel when the car (hopefully) hits the track.
Same can be said about Perrinn.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 09:59 (Ref:3457765)   #37
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In which way exactly is Brabham's new begging bowl "Open Source"?

If it was it would mean information was FREELY licensed and able to be accessed and changed by collaborators and non-collaborators alike? Instead his scheme has "tiered access" levels according to what you cough up into the bowl.

I object to Brabham describing his appeal for funds as "Open Source" and deliberately misinterpreting the concept for his own gain. It wouldn't get through the Advertising Standards Authority here in the UK, so let's hope he buys a few ads in print.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 10:13 (Ref:3457769)   #38
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In which way exactly is Brabham's new begging bowl "Open Source"?

If it was it would mean information was FREELY licensed and able to be accessed and changed by collaborators and non-collaborators alike? Instead his scheme has "tiered access" levels according to what you cough up into the bowl.

I object to Brabham describing his appeal for funds as "Open Source" and deliberately misinterpreting the concept for his own gain. It wouldn't get through the Advertising Standards Authority here in the UK, so let's hope he buys a few ads in print.
My viewpoint is that anyone, be it Brabham or Perrin, want to go racing, then let them find the investors or sponsors and then go racing. Expecting the public to fund the operation for them to me is wrong and I don't see the angle of Joe Public putting money into it will attract a sponsor, why would it?
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 10:28 (Ref:3457770)   #39
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My viewpoint is that anyone, be it Brabham or Perrin, want to go racing, then let them find the investors or sponsors and then go racing. Expecting the public to fund the operation for them to me is wrong and I don't see the angle of Joe Public putting money into it will attract a sponsor, why would it?
I agree, although of course people, or suckers as they say in the Financial Services Industry, are free to spend their money any way they want I suppose.

The problem I have is that the use of "Open Source" is clearly misrepresenting the project and brings with it the danger of undermining a concept that exists for the benefit of all, not just the Brabhams' bank accounts.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 10:36 (Ref:3457772)   #40
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Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri View Post
In which way exactly is Brabham's new begging bowl "Open Source"?

If it was it would mean information was FREELY licensed and able to be accessed and changed by collaborators and non-collaborators alike? Instead his scheme has "tiered access" levels according to what you cough up into the bowl.

I object to Brabham describing his appeal for funds as "Open Source" and deliberately misinterpreting the concept for his own gain. It wouldn't get through the Advertising Standards Authority here in the UK, so let's hope he buys a few ads in print.
Print adverts are in Autosport this week if you feel like complaining. Alternatively, you could just not donate and move on.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 10:47 (Ref:3457778)   #41
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Originally Posted by isynge View Post
Print adverts are in Autosport this week if you feel like complaining. Alternatively, you could just not donate and move on.
So it is.

But unlike the promo Youtube video "Open Source" doesn't even get a mention.

Nice to know they have at least got some decent advice on advertising rules in the UK.
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 11:03 (Ref:3457781)   #42
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I'll be interested to see what the restrictions are on the material they put out in the "Brabham-Engineer" stream, which is one area where they could conform to some of the values of the Open Source Initiative.

Leaving terminology aside, I see this less as a corporate begging bowl and more of a traditional crowdfunding / kickstarter like project (perhaps a little in the line of the rather fun Mars One initiative). They're selling a variety of packages that get you 'something' and a mild feeling of having participated - if this raises them £250k (and it just might looking at the progress of it so far), and they use this, combined with value of Brabham brand, and whatever they themselves are putting into it (be it cash or blood / sweat / tears) to move to something which is likely to be more meaningfully funded then I don't think there's much of an issue.

It's a little like the old "Racing for Britain" model that funded drivers in the 1980s, or even the "Racing for Holland" model where you could buy a square on the Dome LMP and have your name/logo etc on it in an entirely unreadable way, but feel a little bit more involved because somehow you'd contributed something.

I'll be interested to see what phase 2 of funding looks like - to continue with the Mars One analogy, they've been quite creative in terms of everything from traditional contribute a bit and get a t-shirt, through to contribute something and get entries to a competition for a sub-orbital flight (which might or might not happen), or enter the contest to become a Mars colonist. Can Brabham continue in this sort of vein? I like to think so, in terms of things like factory visits, pit visits at races, appearances of their car / drivers / team at events etc.

Inherently all of this starts to point at what I've long suspected - that the old sponsorship model introduced by Lotus in the 1960s has increasingly run its course, and that motorsport in general and sportscar racing in particular does not at present have a sustainable business model. If correctly done crowd funding helps redress this then I'm not sure I'm going to grumble, and who knows, I might even put my hand in my pocket...
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 11:28 (Ref:3457787)   #43
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I would think if David Brabham was really serious about bringing the family name back into top line racing, he would pony up some of the funds himself and use who he is to bring in investors & sponsors?
he's not silly, he knows he's never going to get it back so why would he? and to be entirely fair, you never invest in motorsport, you donate to it. money doesn't come back, there's nowhere for it to come from!

i don't see anything wrong with appealing to fans for donations, especially for a name and a project many of a certain age and wealth as well as youngins with a sense of history would be emotionally invested in immediately. i think if it's well done and a decent amount of information is released to investors it gives those fans a very good idea about exactly how much it costs to buy, set up, run and maintain a racing car and team.

personally, i'm cynical about this in that the larger the project and the more money that appears to have been spent on it... the more money will get spent on paying advisors to make it look good/talk about how to make it go faster. i'm always inclined to trust a bunch of engineers who plan to run a car from a shed on a farm and spend the money on kit they need than a shiny advert in autosport...
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 11:34 (Ref:3457789)   #44
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Inherently all of this starts to point at what I've long suspected - that the old sponsorship model introduced by Lotus in the 1960s has increasingly run its course, and that motorsport in general and sportscar racing in particular does not at present have a sustainable business model. If correctly done crowd funding helps redress this then I'm not sure I'm going to grumble, and who knows, I might even put my hand in my pocket...
Thats an interesting thought - but if you consider the number of cars being run worldwide in various categories by business sponsors money, I cannot see how crowd funding could ever replace that?
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Old 26 Sep 2014, 12:05 (Ref:3457794)   #45
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Thats an interesting thought - but if you consider the number of cars being run worldwide in various categories by business sponsors money, I cannot see how crowd funding could ever replace that?
I agree - I can't see crowdfunding being in any way the solution, but it might form part of the solution.

In terms of the number of cars being run? Well there's undeniably a lot of them, but how many are being run because the sponsor sees a measurable ROI from the engagement (be it through eyeballs seeing the name on the side of the car, the corporate entertainment opportunities trackside, or the exciting sport halo effect used in wider marketing) and how many because a particular corporate exec likes spending some of the profits generated by a successful business on a 'hobby' like racing?
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