F1 WDC since 1980 - Who won it, who should've?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

One thing, how many points did Damon have to catch up going into Imola?

I think he had 6 from his 2nd place at Interlagos compared to Schuey's 20?

[SennaTheGreat]

Cheers chunterer. I still say that Ayrton would have got the 1994 title if it wasn't for that race. Senna would have probably realised what Schu had done and just sat on the rear of the benetton and waited for it to retire/pit

[Mekola]

Quite a sentimental list, here it goes...

1980 Pryce
1981 Reutemann
1982 Villeneuve
1983 Prost
1984 Prost
1985 Prost
1986 Mansell
1987 Mansell
1988 Senna
1989 Senna
1990 Prost
1991 Senna
1992 Mansell
1993 Prost
1994 Schumacher
1995 Schumacher
1996 Senna
1997 Senna
1998 Hakkinen
1999 Hakkinen
2000 Schumacher
2001 Schumacher
2002 Schumacher
2003 Montoya
2004 Schumacher
2005 Alonso
2006 Alonso
2007 Hamilton
2008 Massa
2009 Button

[chunterer]

Mekola, I find your list most interesting.

Pryce WDC in 1980!!! presumably he would have been at the wheel of the Williams as AJ went there from Shadow........

Had both liveed, maybe Tony Brise (Brabham) might have pipped Tom in an all Brit title battle.

I'd agree with most of the rest of yours with the following exceptions again some massively assumptive:

'81 Jones
'82 Pironi (or maybe Prost if not for shocking reliabilty)
'83 Villeneuve (would not have overhauled Didier in '82 but would drive for the title in '83 surely)
'85 Villeneuve (would have been quicker than Alboreto in good car)
'95 Senna
'05 Kimi (or JPM had he not injured himself.... McLaren was the car that year)
'07 Alonso

[chunterer]

Hello again!

2017 Vettel
2018 Vettel

He had the equipment but fluffed it!

[Kempi]

The best car won in both years. When people look at those two years they always only see the first half and forget that Mercedes/Lewis utterly dominated the second halves.

[chillibowl]

What if Nico had not retired after 2016?

Would LH still have won? Would Nico have won? Would the Merc drivers have taken enough points off one another that Vettel could have taken one?

[steve_r]

I do not think I have read the full definitive story of what went on behind the scenes at Mercedes the year that Nico Rosberg won the title, but it took so much out of him (psychologically) that I do not think that he would necessarily be able to continue on that level in the following years, hence his early retirement.

We will never know of course. Have we been robbed of two or three years of classic / bitter rivalry akin to Senna and Prost? Maybe.

[S griffin]

If Lewis had left for say Ferrari at the end of 2016, would Nico have stayed on? Who knows, maybe he would have found it easier knowing he had a team mate in Bottas

[coppice]

Shoulda woulda coulda - that way madness lies. It's simple - the person who wins is the one who ends up with more points -or even half a point - more than everyone else at season end . Everybody works to this objective . The person who wins deserves to because he -or she - has got more points. That year, for this simple fact alone , winning it makes them 'best '.



Moss may never have won ,nor Peterson or Villeneuve (G) , Rosberg (K) may have won with only a single win , some drivers have had such great cars they've won the championship before summer's ended , some seasons have had 21 Grands Prix and others less than half that total ... but when you win , you win. End of story .

[S griffin]

I think you’re missing the whole point of the thread. And to say the one with the most points is automatically the best is not true. Sure there’s bit little if any undeserving champions, but that doesn’t mean some might deserve it more

[coppice]

I am not missing the point , but making one; it's what people do in discussions . 'Deserving' doesn't come into it - because we then allow emotional judgement to carry more weight than the facts. For instance, maybe somebody will explain why Mario Andretti should surrender his '78 crown to Niki Lauda on the grounds that Lauda's fan car would probably have won the remaining 8 races from Sweden on , had it not been withdrawn ?

[S griffin]

We’re not saying that titles in the past should change, just how different it could have been

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

We’re not saying that titles in the past should change, just how different it could have been

??? - the title of the thread is who 'should've' - ???

Just think how different it could have been if a driver was born in 1990 who was such an exceptional talent in the junior formulae that they were in a Renault in 2005 instead of Alonso.......

Or how different it could have been if Ralf Schumacher had turned out to be better than Michael......

[S griffin]

Who should’ve is a subject to debate. And that’s what we are doing here. Don’t need to pick out everything I say and completely misread it

[chillibowl]

this is supposed to be a fun thread and its going to be a long off season if we start criticizing people for using their imagination and deep knowledge of the sport to play a little 'what if'.

heck it is F1 so for sure there are enough examples of a team running an illegal car, using someone else's IP, race distances being changed, outcomes decided by stewards instead on on track, bad driving etc etc that these sorts of 'what if' discussions are inevitable.

anyways, i think we have all seen enough Flavio Briatore teams to have some qualms about simply believing 'he who has the most points is the most deserving winner' right?

[S griffin]

And let’s not forget the Brabham rocket fuel

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And let’s not forget the Brabham rocket fuel

Guess we can pencil Lauda in as the 1978 WDC with the Brabham fan car then too.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wnut

Guess we can pencil Lauda in as the 1978 WDC with the Brabham fan car then too.

Banned! The car that is, not you

To counter Kempi's point, I don't agree the Mercedes was the better car in the second half of 17 & 18. Vettel was regularly in contention but simply events (or himself!) conspired against him, allowing Hamilton to breeze it in the last few rounds.

If Vettel has not gone into the kittylitter at Hockenheim last year, he would have been right in there.

[coppice]

But it wasn't banned at all. It created a huge fuss, Andretti claimed it threw debris at him and Chapman was enraged at somebody thinking even further outside than than he had with the 78 and 79 . But not banned - Ecclestone , eyes on bigger picture , withdrew it , much to Gordon Murray's chagrin.

[Kempi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Banned! The car that is, not you

To counter Kempi's point, I don't agree the Mercedes was the better car in the second half of 17 & 18. Vettel was regularly in contention but simply events (or himself!) conspired against him, allowing Hamilton to breeze it in the last few rounds.

If Vettel has not gone into the kittylitter at Hockenheim last year, he would have been right in there.

He would have been able to hang in for longer (as he did in 2017). Even when the Ferrari was "on" in those two years, the Mercedes were a few seconds behind. When the Mercedes was "on" the Ferraris had no chance. Overall, the Mercedes was the better because more complete car. It may not have been the best in all topspeed, high, mid, low speed corners but it was always able to challenge. Something the Ferrari never had.

And on top of that they had an error prone Vettel who was never himself anymore after Singapore 2017 and even less Hockenheim 2018. Something went off mentally.

[hoffman66]

So many what ifs.

1976
1982 could ahve had numerous champions
1986.

and the sad occasions of 1989 and 1990

1995 were it not for a dodgy German

[wnut]

Originally Posted by hoffman66

So many what ifs.

1976
1982 could ahve had numerous champions
1986.

and the sad occasions of 1989 and 1990

1995 were it not for a dodgy German

Would you like to expand on this crossword clue?

[S griffin]

1982 had so many potential champions apart from Rosberg in the coulda woulda shoulda category

Pironi would have won it but for his crash in Germany
Wattie could have done it, but for his mid season bad luck
Prost perhaps should have, if only his Renault was much more reliable
Lauda had an outside chance depending on McLaren's appeal against his Zolder DQ, but a lot depended on other things
Arnoux could also have done it, had he had better reliability. He was back on form after a tough 1981
Patrese was actually ahead of Rosberg at the halfway point of the season. Who knows if he had stuck with the reliable Cosworth engine in the second half of the season?
Same with Piquet, although he probably wouldn't have won 83 if he stuck with the Cosworth engine
Villeneuve we know what happened to him, he would certainly would have had the car to take the title
Lole if had done a full season could have done it, certainly he would have been the No. 1 in the team

Amazingly Tambay feels he could have won the title if not for the neck problems which made him miss a couple of races. Certainly if had won Dijon he would have gone into the final race with a good chance. And this after missing the first half of the season

[chunterer]

81 and 82 were 2 of the most open seasons in the last 40 odd years!

Back to topic. Mario receny said he could've joined McLaren for'81 but plumped for Alfa.