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View Poll Results: Which driver combination will win the Pirtek Enduro Cup?
#2 Pye/Luff WP HOLDEN 0 0%
#3 Russell/Douglas LDM HOLDEN 0 0%
#5 Winterbottom/Canto PRA FORD 0 0%
#6 Waters/Stanaway PRA FORD 0 0%
#7 T.Kelly/Le Brocq NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#8 Percat/Jones BJR HOLDEN 0 0%
#9 Reynolds/Youlden Erebus HOLDEN 0 0%
#12 Coulthard/D'Alberto DJRTP FORD 2 6.90%
#14 Slade/Walsh BJR HOLDEN 1 3.45%
#15 R.Kelly/Wall NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#17 McLaughlin/Premat DJRTP FORD 7 24.14%
#18 Holdsworth/Reindler CSR HOLDEN 0 0%
#19 W.Davison/Webb Tekno HOLDEN 0 0%
#21 Blanchard/Hazelwood TBR HOLDEN 0 0%
#22 Courtney/Perkins WP HOLDEN 0 0%
#23 Caruso/Fiore NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#33 Tander/Golding GRM HOLDEN 0 0%
#34 Moffat/Muscat GRM HOLDEN 0 0%
#55 Mostert/Owen PRA FORD 1 3.45%
#56 Bright/Jacobson PRA FORD 1 3.45%
#62 Rullo/A.Davison LDM HOLDEN 1 3.45%
#78 de Silvestro/D.Russell NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#88 Whincup/Dumbrell 888 HOLDEN 7 24.14%
#97 van Gisbergen/Campbell 888 HOLDEN 6 20.69%
#99 Wood/Pither Erebus HOLDEN 0 0%
#888 Lowndes/Richards 888 HOLDEN 3 10.34%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2 Aug 2017, 13:17 (Ref:3756944)   #166
Sandgroper
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Sandgroper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by mceci1 View Post
The rules don't consider how some corners work. While I agree with most, I don't believe anyone was to blame for the Caruso Le Brocq crash, anyone with half a brain of logic would see it
I have no brain but Caruso gave him no room.........he was Guilty !!!!!!!!
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 13:19 (Ref:3756946)   #167
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
I have (state/club type stuff)

Doesn't matter how the corner 'flows', Caruso could have easily made it around the corner and given JLB room, he chose not to. The steering wheel works both ways.

the rule-makers state you can't run someone off the track, full stop.
BINGO !!!!
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 21:55 (Ref:3757064)   #168
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Originally Posted by mceci1 View Post
The rules don't consider how some corners work. While I agree with most, I don't believe anyone was to blame for the Caruso Le Brocq crash, anyone with half a brain of logic would see it
The rules for many years now allow for all corners, leave someone racing room. a driver can not just power out to the edge of the track just because they have mostly won the corner. This allows two cars to go side by side along the next straight and potentially we see a pass in the next corner.

I think your JLB dislike is showing
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 04:25 (Ref:3757112)   #169
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Woolley View Post
Sadly these days, overtaking must be done in a straight line and largely completed before the end of the braking zone (you must be at least fully level with the car alongside) as a result of which it's largely impossible, and so doesn't happen. Even worse when given the F1 'one move' which you can leave until the person behind has committed himself to one side or the other. We call that 'driving around in circles in a big procession' and it's not nearly as interesting as 'racing' used to be!
With HANS devices and driving position in the centre now it is harder and harder to see someone who wants to dive bomb so drivers will close the door and end up spinning out. If you allow it like this you end up with 90s BTCC style crash up derby which was out of control.

Careful of the rose-coloured glasses!
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 06:44 (Ref:3757129)   #170
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This is a great example of where I think motorsport - F1 inspired as usual - have gone down the wrong path.

In the old days, getting your nose into a gap gave you the right to a car's width. Getting mostly past in the corner meant you'd won the corner. Of course, that doesn't mean you could just biff your way through, but if you got partly alongside before the apex then it was deemed a 'great move'. But also if you haven't completely got in front by the exit, then you also have to modify your acceleration to leave a car's width on the outside. We called it 'racing'.

Physics largely agrees with that interpretation. If you've stuck your nose in, then your pretty much certain to be on the limit of adhesion both in braking and turning and if the guy on the outside turns in it's not actually possible to avoid him.

Sadly these days, overtaking must be done in a straight line and largely completed before the end of the braking zone (you must be at least fully level with the car alongside) as a result of which it's largely impossible, and so doesn't happen. Even worse when given the F1 'one move' which you can leave until the person behind has committed himself to one side or the other. We call that 'driving around in circles in a big procession' and it's not nearly as interesting as 'racing' used to be!

It was a good move by Caruso in my opinion its just a shame he had what appears to be wash or understeer and took both out, no fault to either. Now it seems the keyboard warriors don't think its a good move unless its like SVG and the car is hanging 'right out sideways'.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 06:48 (Ref:3757130)   #171
mceci1
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Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
The rules for many years now allow for all corners, leave someone racing room. a driver can not just power out to the edge of the track just because they have mostly won the corner. This allows two cars to go side by side along the next straight and potentially we see a pass in the next corner.

I think your JLB dislike is showing
I don't have a Le Brocq disliking. It was a wash on Caruso's car which pushed him wide into Le Brocq, as I have said before, you cant pin blame in the instance of outside view. To me it looked like understeer or aero wash. No penalty was handed down as far as I'm aware too which confirms that DSO saw it as racing incident too and would have in car footage and telementry. I know the situation and feel sorry for both as not a thing could be done.

Last edited by mceci1; 3 Aug 2017 at 06:56.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 06:50 (Ref:3757131)   #172
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
With HANS devices and driving position in the centre now it is harder and harder to see someone who wants to dive bomb so drivers will close the door and end up spinning out. If you allow it like this you end up with 90s BTCC style crash up derby which was out of control.

Careful of the rose-coloured glasses!
There is a lot wearing rose glasses, none realise the situation and how NEITHER driver was at fault. Lowndes and McLaughlin had the same pass, with Lowndes needing to really lift for Scott to not hit him, it was the same scenario except experience helped. Jack will now know how overtaking on that particular corner works and I'd say is smart enough not to bat on with it right there but hold back and set the pass up for turn 3. Also you compromised the argument by the others with the HANS free. With a HANS free device in those cars its easier to see the right hand side mirror then the left, which Micheal would have been in that situation. Racing incident as I said
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:05 (Ref:3757134)   #173
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I see penrite have a retro competition going for sandown

Today''s efforts a Ch 9 camaro look
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:13 (Ref:3757135)   #174
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I see penrite have a retro competition going for sandown

Today''s efforts a Ch 9 camaro look
interesting
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:42 (Ref:3757141)   #175
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It was a good move by Caruso in my opinion its just a shame he had what appears to be wash or understeer and took both out, no fault to either.
Surely if your car understeers, you are ultimately at fault for the car doing so (excluding mechanical failure, or a hit up the backside)

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Originally Posted by peckstar
Today''s efforts a Ch 9 camaro look
It looks good. I did have to smile at the Camaro photo that went with the #9 retro Penrite Commodore drawing on Facebook, showing a big Valvoline sticker on the rear end though
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:00 (Ref:3757147)   #176
mceci1
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[QUOTE=one five five;3757141]Surely if your car understeers, you are ultimately at fault for the car doing so (excluding mechanical failure, or a hit up the backside)


Its not your fault if the car isn't set right, if you don't have a car that's good on turn in how can you stop it. That's the most ridiculous comment I have seen for a while though regarding set ups, you cant be blamed for a bad set on the car.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:12 (Ref:3757150)   #177
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[QUOTE=mceci1;3757147]
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Surely if your car understeers, you are ultimately at fault for the car doing so (excluding mechanical failure, or a hit up the backside)


Its not your fault if the car isn't set right, if you don't have a car that's good on turn in how can you stop it. That's the most ridiculous comment I have seen for a while though regarding set ups, you cant be blamed for a bad set on the car.
Sorry little buddy, understeer is a result of pushing harder into a corner than your car is capable of, simple answer, back off slightly until the understeer tapers off, and you avoid hitting the car on your outside.

I'm afraid your comment has to classify as the most ridiculous comment rather than the one 155 is making.

I guess once you get your licence and actually drive a car at speed you may figure this out for yourself.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:15 (Ref:3757151)   #178
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oh cmon! So he can hurtle into anyone and blame setup?!??
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:22 (Ref:3757153)   #179
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oh cmon! So he can hurtle into anyone and blame setup?!??
Exactly, unfortunately, we have some posters who seem to have never driven a car let alone at speed on a circuit.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:32 (Ref:3757157)   #180
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oh cmon! So he can hurtle into anyone and blame setup?!??
Whats the deal here, I see a lot of hate to Caruso, yet SVG, Courtney, Percat, Coulthard, Moffat all take people out and its a matter of 'no its not there fault, they made an error so lets forgive them like that, doesn't matter the fact that they are all running in a title fight.

Yet Caruso, Bright, Frosty or Whincup do it and its, 'no their wrong, send them to the executioner they may have accidently did it but destroy them anyway'

I am not associated with NISMO but PRA and T8 (to be fair is asking for a war. I am mainly on the PRA side but know people in T8 too). The way people have made it look is like Caruso is the devil of V8s. It was an error but will understeer and the car settling its hard to control
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