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Old 14 Jan 2005, 14:05 (Ref:1200895)   #1
JimW
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Flag point - What flag point?

On a trackday thread (http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64301) ther is a very interesting in-car video of a couple of laps of Donington. Have a look and see how many flag points you can see. Particularly if you keep your attention on the car in front, as a racing driver probably woudl be doing, I reckon you see very few.

(At the end they come across a course car and I don't think the red lights were visible before then.)

Regards

Jim

Last edited by JimW; 14 Jan 2005 at 14:07. Reason: Add smiley.
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 22:04 (Ref:1201231)   #2
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Mark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by JimW
On a trackday thread (http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64301) ther is a very interesting in-car video of a couple of laps of Donington. Have a look and see how many flag points you can see. Particularly if you keep your attention on the car in front, as a racing driver probably woudl be doing, I reckon you see very few.

(At the end they come across a course car and I don't think the red lights were visible before then.)

Regards

Jim

That's why I have always stressed to flaggies on post with me that when you show a flag - whether static or waved - you need to make it "Talk" ie do something to make it catch the drivers eye!
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 22:27 (Ref:1201242)   #3
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In a race situation it isn't quite as bad as that vid looks, most drivers have a better peripheral vision than the film shows. Don't forget you are all dressed in pretty orange stuff and as long as you make sure the flags are shewn positively then they should be seen. But on second thoughts it could be used in any future defence.
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Old 15 Jan 2005, 23:35 (Ref:1201863)   #4
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Clive should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridClive should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Seeing flag points is harder when you're focussing on the track and other racing cars, as I proved to myself when on the track day at Brands, and we weren't racing, of course! But, every driver knows where the flag points are, that's the point of showing the green on the warm up lap and practice sessions and the posts are painted to stand out, but it is true too that the flaggies need to 'present' properly to make sure the flag is as visible as can be as it more often than not through the peripheral vision that the driver 'sees' the flag. If not, maybe the position of the flag point needs changing!
Also, does every flaggie wear orange?? I think not.
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Old 16 Jan 2005, 00:03 (Ref:1201886)   #5
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BRSCC did an experiment at Cmbe some years ago to use as a training aid for flaggers.
Very revealing, certain points where "invisible" to the driver.

I feel such a video should form part of the track licence as well as being used for training.

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Old 16 Jan 2005, 13:53 (Ref:1202212)   #6
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Having driven on a few trackdays at different circuits, I have yet to see the muber of people on a post anywhere near the number that you would get at a meeting. As has been said already, a number of people in bright orange helps to catch the drivers eye. Still a very interesting video though.
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Old 16 Jan 2005, 22:50 (Ref:1202586)   #7
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interesting video?? I suppose so, although it made me want to have a go!
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Old 17 Jan 2005, 08:48 (Ref:1202789)   #8
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PipSqueak111 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I was on a trackday at Donington last year and they said there were several flag marshals out on post, but I could only spot one of them on my orientation laps, and didn't see any for the rest of the day (we were all good little boys and girls in our SEATCupra.net session and didn't need any flags - unlike marshals at Brands ). It does highlight the need for visibility of flagposts and flaggies alike. Being a marshal I was looking for the flags intentionally, but most drivers would be concentrating on the track and have even less chance of seeing them.
Didn't have a problem seeing flag marshals at Brands, so perhaps Donington need to look at this?

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Old 18 Jan 2005, 00:02 (Ref:1203367)   #9
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You like my little video then...
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 00:57 (Ref:1203395)   #10
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Good fun, especially the Porsche.

Regarding not being able to see the flag points from the track at Donington, it's sometimes a little hard to see the track from the flag points without good binoculars.
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 11:40 (Ref:1203683)   #11
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neil_davidson2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridneil_davidson2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by theracegypsy
BRSCC did an experiment at Combe some years ago to use as a training aid for flaggers.
I'm guessing this is what also led to each of the posts at Combe having a diagram of the section of the circuit you were covering with the "Effective Flag Zone" clearly marked on it. Very useful for helping to get your eye in, especially if it was the first time you'd flagged that point.
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 16:18 (Ref:1203864)   #12
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Like Clive I did the excellent Brands marshals trackday. During the morning sessions the track was a tad greasy so the speeds were down. At this point it was fairly easy to see the flagging, but after lunch the track was dry and people were more confident and it all speeded up. Needless to say ones concentration had to increase and cars were getting a little closer and braking later and later.
In conclusion, it became a little harder to see some of the flags !!!
However,you licenced drivers, please do not use this against me when I am observing and you lot do a naughty and overtake under yellows !!!
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 17:40 (Ref:1203929)   #13
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Would large lights be a help? If you put them on the posts or where a driver looks and they where pretected they could be switched on/off from the control room? Failing that as UK marshalls are always good just get them to switch them on. Prob might be colour blind probs? Maybe different shape lights? Just a quick thought.
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 21:34 (Ref:1204156)   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil_davidson2
I'm guessing this is what also led to each of the posts at Combe having a diagram of the section of the circuit you were covering with the "Effective Flag Zone" clearly marked on it. Very useful for helping to get your eye in, especially if it was the first time you'd flagged that point.
~

Can you please clarify what you mean by this? I'm VERY interested. Allways happy to learn!
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Old 18 Jan 2005, 21:56 (Ref:1204169)   #15
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neil_davidson2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridneil_davidson2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes no problem. The effective flagging zone shows the area on the track that your flag will be visible to an approaching driver. So at the start of the day you can match the diagram to the real view and have a good idea at which point on the track the drivers will see your flags and at which point you are not longer visible to them (and at some posts it's a surprisingly short distance).

It's very useful for trainee flaggers and as I mentioned for the first time you have to flag a post. I hope that helps clarify what I was talking about.

Last edited by neil_davidson2; 18 Jan 2005 at 22:02.
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