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Old 1 Nov 2021, 18:58 (Ref:4080985)   #1
BTCC frog
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BTCC teammates help

I am currently doing a project where I am trying to create a mathematical model, based on the ones that exist for Formula 1, to determine the greatest BTCC driver of the modern era. My model is far simpler than the Formula 1 ones, and I can already see it is going to come up with several anomalous results (for example, I can see that Rob Austin is going to rate as one of the very top drivers). But it will be fun nonetheless, and will hopefully still give fairly good results.

But, like the F1 models, mine is based on teammate connections, and the teams are far less clear in the BTCC than in F1, so it would be helpful to me if I could have a few more opinions about whether or not the following drivers should be considered to be teammates. I know there are always some differences in the cars, due to different engineers (I actually worked at a BTCC team once), but can these drivers' cars be considered close enough to be considered teammates, in your opinion:

Will Hoy/Ray Bellm and Tim Harvey/Laurence Bristow in 1991 (two halves of the Vic Lee team).

Robb Gravett/Eugene O'Brien and Ian Flux 1993.

The Vauxhalls and the eggsport Vauxhalls in 2001-2002.

Michael Bentwood and the works Vauxhalls in 2004.

The Pirtek Vauxhalls and Triple Eight Vauxhalls in 2011.

Jack Clarke and the Motorbase Fords in 2014.

Marc Hynes and the works MGs in 2014.

The Speedworks drivers and Handy Motorsport drivers between 2014-16.

Alex Martin and Stewart Lines in 2016.

Stephen Jelley and the Maximum Fords in 2017.

Adam Morgan and Aiden Moffat 2015-18.

Matt Simpson and Shedden/Neal in 2017.

Matt Simpson and Goff/Smith in 2018.

Adam Morgan and Dan Rowbottom in 2019.

The MB Fords and Motorbase Fords in 2021.

I already have an opinion for each of these, but won't reveal them yet to avoid bias. If anyone believes strongly that any of these should or shouldn't be considered teammates, please reply. Thank you.
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Old 1 Nov 2021, 19:22 (Ref:4080986)   #2
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Will Hoy/Ray Bellm and Tim Harvey/Laurence Bristow in 1991 (two halves of the Vic Lee team). - Yes

Robb Gravett/Eugene O'Brien and Ian Flux 1993. - No

The Vauxhalls and the eggsport Vauxhalls in 2001-2002. - Yes

Michael Bentwood and the works Vauxhalls in 2004. - No

The Pirtek Vauxhalls and Triple Eight Vauxhalls in 2011. - No

Jack Clarke and the Motorbase Fords in 2014. - Yes

Marc Hynes and the works MGs in 2014. - Yes

The Speedworks drivers and Handy Motorsport drivers between 2014-16. - Yes

Alex Martin and Stewart Lines in 2016. - No

Stephen Jelley and the Maximum Fords in 2017. - Yes

Adam Morgan and Aiden Moffat 2015-18. - No

Matt Simpson and Shedden/Neal in 2017. - Yes

Matt Simpson and Goff/Smith in 2018. - No

Adam Morgan and Dan Rowbottom in 2019. - Yes

The MB Fords and Motorbase Fords in 2021. - No
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Old 1 Nov 2021, 19:36 (Ref:4080989)   #3
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Originally Posted by BTCC frog View Post
Will Hoy/Ray Bellm and Tim Harvey/Laurence Bristow in 1991 (two halves of the Vic Lee team). Yes.

Robb Gravett/Eugene O'Brien and Ian Flux 1993. No.

The Vauxhalls and the eggsport Vauxhalls in 2001-2002. Yes.

Michael Bentwood and the works Vauxhalls in 2004. No.

The Pirtek Vauxhalls and Triple Eight Vauxhalls in 2011. No.

Jack Clarke and the Motorbase Fords in 2014. Yes.

Marc Hynes and the works MGs in 2014. Yes.

The Speedworks drivers and Handy Motorsport drivers between 2014-16. Yes.

Alex Martin and Stewart Lines in 2016. No. I think Lines ran the car in-house that year. I can't remember if Parker were involved or not.

Stephen Jelley and the Maximum Fords in 2017. Yes.

Adam Morgan and Aiden Moffat 2015-18. They operated as a team despite being separate entities, so I'd say yes.

Matt Simpson and Shedden/Neal in 2017. Yes.

Matt Simpson and Goff/Smith in 2018 Yes, for the first 7 events.

Adam Morgan and Dan Rowbottom in 2019. Yes.

The MB Fords and Motorbase Fords in 2021. Yes.
...
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Old 7 Nov 2021, 16:22 (Ref:4081970)   #4
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Thank you for your help. I should have the first version of this completed by the end of next week, which looks as though it will rate Chris Stockton as the Greatest of All Time! Then the second version will hopefully be done by the end of the month, which, unlike the first, will hopefully pass the sanity check (I think it will rate Ash Sutton as number one, although I'm not sure yet). I will create a website when it is fully complete and post a link here if anyone is interested in seeing the full results, but that won't be for around six months.
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Old 7 Nov 2021, 16:55 (Ref:4081973)   #5
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Originally Posted by BTCC frog View Post
Will Hoy/Ray Bellm and Tim Harvey/Laurence Bristow in 1991 (two halves of the Vic Lee team).
Yes, same team under different banner, like the Kaliber/Labatts with Rousesport

Robb Gravett/Eugene O'Brien and Ian Flux 1993.
Only as manufacturers, but two completely different team

The Vauxhalls and the eggsport Vauxhalls in 2001-2002.
Yes, all run by 888

Michael Bentwood and the works Vauxhalls in 2004.
No. The works were 888 and Bentwood was independently run by Tech-Speed

The Pirtek Vauxhalls and Triple Eight Vauxhalls in 2011.
No

Jack Clarke and the Motorbase Fords in 2014.
Yes, Clarke was part of Motorbase too

Marc Hynes and the works MGs in 2014.
Yes, all 888, only Hynes was independent

The Speedworks drivers and Handy Motorsport drivers between 2014-16.
Same stable, but separate teams IMHO

Alex Martin and Stewart Lines in 2016.
No, the merger between the two teams was next season

Stephen Jelley and the Maximum Fords in 2017.
Yes, see they were merged together then

Adam Morgan and Aiden Moffat 2015-18.
Technical partnership, but probably no more than that

Matt Simpson and Shedden/Neal in 2017.
Yes, Simpson’s was run by Dynamics

Matt Simpson and Goff/Smith in 2018.
Yes, for the first half of the season at least. Simpson was run by Eurotech, before going alone

Adam Morgan and Dan Rowbottom in 2019.
Yes, both Cicely

The MB Fords and Motorbase Fords in 2021.
IMO no, but others will disagree. Same stable, both eligible for constructor points, but I still see them separate.

.
Hope this helps
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Old 18 Jan 2022, 16:34 (Ref:4094296)   #6
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Originally Posted by BTCC frog View Post
Thank you to everyone who helped with this. I did the following:

Will Hoy/Ray Bellm and Tim Harvey/Laurence Bristow in 1991 (two halves of the Vic Lee team).I tried them separately and the Will Hoy half of the team got a considerably higher result than the Tim Harvey half, so I considered them separate.

Robb Gravett/Eugene O'Brien and Ian Flux 1993.Everyone asked said they were separate so I went with that.

The Vauxhalls and the eggsport Vauxhalls in 2001-2002.Initially, I tried them separately, but the model gave the Vauxhalls and eggsport Vauxhalls almost the same result, so I think this is evidence that they were equal cars and have altered it to consider them one team.

Michael Bentwood and the works Vauxhalls in 2004.Again, everyone said they were separate so I went with that.

The Pirtek Vauxhalls and Triple Eight Vauxhalls in 2011.Again, definitely separate

Jack Clarke and the Motorbase Fords in 2014.Most said one team, and so I went with that. Clarke has no other teammates so it couldn’t be proved false.

Marc Hynes and the works MGs in 2014.Same as Motorbase/Clarke result

The Speedworks drivers and Handy Motorsport drivers between 2014-16.This one was difficult but in the end I considered them one team

Alex Martin and Stewart Lines in 2016.Everyone said they were separate so I went with that

Stephen Jelley and the Maximum Fords in 2017.Initially had them together, but I had to consider Jelley’s result anomalous anyway so it didn’t make a difference

Adam Morgan and Aiden Moffat 2015-18.
Maybe this one was slightly cheating, but I considered them one team as I was 50/50 and doing this would give Morgan would have more representative teammates as the results against Oliphant, Rowbottom and Chilton were all anomalous (but not Butel, interestingly)
Matt Simpson and Shedden/Neal in 2017.Had them as one team, perhaps wrongly.

Matt Simpson and Goff/Smith in 2018.Again, one team, perhaps wrongly.

Adam Morgan and Dan Rowbottom in 2019.I had them as teammates but then considered it an anomalous result

The MB Fords and Motorbase Fords in 2021.I first had them as teammates but when I separated it the MB side got a much higher score than the Motorbase side, even when I considered Andy Neate’s results anomalous. So they are separate
I will release the full results on my blog soon.
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