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Old 5 Jun 2020, 09:26 (Ref:3980288)   #551
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EV news arrives thick and fast today.

New Peugeot e-Traveller launched as electric eight-seat MPV

'Peugeot has introduced a new all-electric version of its Traveller van-based MPV; one of a small number of eight-seat EVs available anywhere.'
This seems to cater for the market of group travel in/around urban areas, a use we may see increase in future?

New Audi E-tron GT
'The EV grand tourer, a sibling to the Porsche Taycan, isn't set to hit showrooms until early 2021 after the unveiling.'
A Grand Tourer, with 582hp < 3.5s 0-60 and a range that any sensible driver wouldn't attempt without taking a break. Highlighting the breadth of capability in the EV world of the future?

Renault's future involvement with EVs is looking increasingly certain.
'In the long run, it’s inevitable that we’ll electrify Alpine' although the move to EV does raise questions over model range - 'As we make the shift from ICE [internal combustion engine] to EVs, something has to give. We don’t have money to develop a complete line of EVs and keep all our existing cars. So which cars do we keep and which cars do we axe?'

And in the classic vehicle area, Lunaz plots expansion, new models

'Classic car electrification firm Lunaz is on track to deliver its first customer models by the end of 2020 and remains committed to significant expansion plans first announced in February.
Deliveries of the Silverstone-based firm’s debut model, electrified versions of the iconic Jaguar XK120 sports coupé, will begin in the final quarter of 2020, with order books now filled for the initial production run. The firm is now taking orders for the XK120 convertible and its XK140 sibling. '


'In addition to the flagship Jaguar models, Lunaz is now offering electric versions of the original Bentley Continental, produced from 1955 to 1965, to its extremely exclusive customer base. The first - a rare Continental S2 Flying Spur - is said to have been commissioned by a car collector who will use it as a daily driver.

Testing for a pair of electrified Rolls-Royces - the 1956 Cloud and 1961 Phantom V - has been completed and Lunaz is in talks with several high-end hospitality firms about the possibility of incorporating the modernised classics into existing limousine fleets.'
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Old 5 Jun 2020, 10:45 (Ref:3980299)   #552
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According to today's Times, slightly mixed messages from Ms Merkel:


"
Germany will cut taxes, hand families €300 in cash for every child and invest €7 billion in hydrogen as the “fuel of the future” after Angela Merkel opened the fiscal flood gates in a €130 billion effort to revive the country’s pandemic-stricken economy.
The chancellor said that the “toughest crisis” in Germany’s modern history was a chance to reconfigure it for the 21st century, with €50 billion poured into technologies such as electric cars, quantum computing and artificial intelligence.
The stimulus package means that Germany is prepared to spend a total of well over €1 trillion — roughly a third of its GDP — on cushioning the blow from Covid-19."




Hydrogen as the fuel of the future, but pouring billions into EV technology?
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Old 5 Jun 2020, 10:54 (Ref:3980300)   #553
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I would certainly like to see as much money invested in Hydrogen r and d as in EVs.
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Old 5 Jun 2020, 12:28 (Ref:3980313)   #554
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As I said in a previous post,


Why does it have to be an EV running from the grid? Why not Hydrogen EV or Hydrogen combustion? No need for much change to infrastructure except for Hydrogen storage. Natural gas and zero pollution, what's not to like.


If anyone thinks that our overloaded national grid can run all of the EV's proposed, think again. Without new power stations there is no chance.


What do you want to do ?
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Old 5 Jun 2020, 12:42 (Ref:3980317)   #555
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On the subject of EV racing, with Swindon not being the BTCC provider from 2022, it looks like their focus is on EV units.

Customers can now order Swindon Powertrain’s High Power Density
(HPD) EV system with deliveries starting in August.


'Swindon Powertrain’s compact HPD 80kW ‘crate’ motor for electric vehicle conversions is now available to order from its website. Suitable for OEMs, niche vehicle manufacturers, electric car conversion companies as well as the enthusiast home mechanic. Prices start at just £6,400+VAT for the 80kW motor, transmission and differential with options for cooling, inverters and limited slip differential also available. Deliveries to the first customers will commence in August 2020.'
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Old 5 Jun 2020, 21:13 (Ref:3980390)   #556
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[QUOTE On the subject of EV racing, with Swindon not being the BTCC provider from 2022, it looks like their focus is on EV units.]

I did note the electric Mini that you can buy from them, but 80k !!!!
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Old 8 Jun 2020, 09:06 (Ref:3980768)   #557
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A recent article explains some of the issues, and developments, in the battery cooling requirements of EVs. It also mentions the i-CoBat project:
'The project aims to develop a new immersive cooling method whereby the cells and connectors are literally immersed in a fluid that’s biodegradable and dielectric (meaning it doesn’t conduct electricity), developed by M&I Materials, called Mivolt. Because the fluid is in contact with the whole cell surface, it’s hoped that immersive cooling will reduce EV charging times by allowing significantly higher C-rates, increase range and slow the ageing process through more accurate thermal management of the battery pack.'

There is also some guidance on the issues of towing an EV when it has broken down:
'The Renault Zoe can be if its battery is flat but not for any other fault. It’s a no for the Nissan Leaf, which has an electronic brake so must use a flatbed truck. And Jaguar says the I-Pace can be towed but only slowly and not far. '
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Old 9 Jun 2020, 09:10 (Ref:3980948)   #558
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Pininfarina Battista leads a range of EV models coming soon.

'The 1900bhp Battista hypercar is on course to reach customers this year – and said that new technology partnerships will accelerate the firm’s subsequent plans'

As to be expected, when designers and engineers really get into developing EV technology, gains will be arriving thick and fast.

'The Battista is intended to serve as the halo car for the Pininfarina brand. It will be followed by a range of luxury EVs designed to take on the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini. The first is planned to be a Urus-rivalling 1000bhp SUV costing around £275,000, and is set to be previewed by the Pura Vision concept later this year.'
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Old 9 Jun 2020, 09:12 (Ref:3980949)   #559
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It appears that EV battery firms see the UK as a good place to develop their businesses:

'Jaguar Land Rover is in talks with Chinese electric car maker BYD for the supply of EV batteries from a facility in the UK'
'Tesla is considering building a new gigafactory in the UK, with reports suggesting that the electric car firm is evaluating a potential site in Somerset.'
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Old 9 Jun 2020, 10:05 (Ref:3980959)   #560
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I think they are right. UK has been a great place for the developing car industry. And Land Rover I'm sure wouldn't mind having an off road electric car. I wish them the best of luck with it
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 09:32 (Ref:3981099)   #561
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We seem to have towns and cities in the UK announcing every day how they are planning to change the "road systems" that they have not yet "pedestrianised" to make them "better" for pedestrians and cyclists to "socially distance" in the future.

But as we know people, en masse, tend to forget any rules about social distancing once the infection fear factor has been lifted slightly or simply due to reversion to a previous norm.

So the relatively expensive and carbon emitting concept of undertaking a significant amount of civil engineering in order to eliminate vehicle and force people to walk or cycle (of they can) seems likely reduce the options for travelling into city centres in one's personal, sealed, socially isolating bubble called personal transport.

Such re-engineering goes well beyond attempts to eliminate ICE emissions for the benefit of inner city residents. since changes to road networks will also effect EV users.

Thus the people for the area surrounding a large conurbation adopting this approach will be forced to either use public transport for all or part of their journey, making the investment in a personal transport option somewhat less cost effect even than it currently is or simply not travel there.

Some may choose to move to live in the housing development that seem to be appearing in city centres replacing previously centralised services like offices, retail outlets, hospitals and some businesses.

One wonders whether such options will remain popular once employment has become a "work from home" model and the city centre living options may not be ideal for such an arrangement.

With the retail "malls" being under sever pressure and the on-line ordering industry, especially the delivery side of it, being increasingly effective (especially with more people working from home making successful delivery more likely unless one lives in a city centre with restricted road access) it is possible that town and city centre shopping centres may become a thing of the past in many cases.

One of the benefits of city centre living, it is suggested, is the option for socialising in cafes, bars and pubs. But that was the Old Normal. The proposed New Normal and an the potential for an ever present threat of repeated pandemics - hence the apparently required social distancing re-engineering of town and city centres - suggest that such pleasures may either be a thing of the past or become somewhat more expensive. Thus less of a reason to live in a centre in accommodation not entirely geared for both home office working or social entertaining once the businesses, cafes and bars have been largely eliminated and shopping, such as there is left, has moved out of town.

So even if Boris, in a final act of bravado, does somehow come up with a scheme that subsidised EVs, across the board, with £6k a time and, assuming that gets passed on the consumer, the scheme is successful, what is the point?

The best use of a vaguely affordable cost effective EV is as a city car. Preferably a city car with additional "rights" of some sort compared to an ICE vehicle. But if those "rights" are to be eroded by simply restricting vehicles in favour of huffing and puffing pedestrians and cyclists (and presumably users of personal mobility scooters), it would mean that people will be forced out of their socially isolating pods and into the midst of the be-masked masses for an ever greater part of their journey to town and city centres denuded of most purposes for going there in the first place.

One wonders how people will respond to that once all of the changes become fully apparent in a year or two. Sometime around the point when whatever major businesses the conurbation is founded on and funded by have "rightsized" and, perhaps, significantly changed the local economic model.

So are those car manufacturers who are introducing models specifically presented as "City Cars" - an sensible market to address especially if it results in something affordable and compact without all of the unnecessary "performance" BS - likely to be disappointed as cities seemingly rush to eliminate vehicles and force people to intermingle more and more including using underutilised public transport which is hardly economically viable even at today's levels of use?

Interesting times ahead.

The costs to towns and cities for the re-engineering and to taxpayers via central government for the subsidies has all of the signs of being capital badly spent.
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 10:01 (Ref:3981101)   #562
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I think they are right. UK has been a great place for the developing car industry. And Land Rover I'm sure wouldn't mind having an off road electric car. I wish them the best of luck with it

JLR have no choice about the need for Electric options as a major part of their sales.


Without them and without those vehicles becoming a significant part of their actual real sales, the additional taxes they would incur would seriously challenge their business model. Unless, that is, they find a way of shifting to different global markets with plenty of cash still focused on ICE vehicles and attracted to the JLR "DNA" for some reason.
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 11:18 (Ref:3981112)   #563
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They didn’t have to do it immediately though, but this will help boost their image and sales. They are smart to realise you can’t let grass grow under your feet. Hopefully JLR will be able to see more people come back to their vehicles, they certainly need them to
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 11:29 (Ref:3981114)   #564
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They didn’t have to do it immediately though,

How so?
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 09:04 (Ref:3981288)   #565
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Why does it have to be an EV running from the grid? Why not Hydrogen EV or Hydrogen combustion? No need for much change to infrastructure except for Hydrogen storage. Natural gas and zero pollution, what's not to like.
Maybe the solution lies between the two?

EVs may be more suitable for town use on short journeys, whereas a fuel-cell vehicle for longer runs?

Nikola seem to be taking this direction with the Badger.

'Like Nikola's heavy goods trucks, which are yet to enter production, the Badger offers a choice of powertrains. It can be supplied as a conventional battery EV with a claimed range of 300 miles or it can be powered by a 120kW hydrogen fuel cell for a range said to be double that of the BEV.

Nikola claims the 5.89m-long Badger can put out 894bhp peak (or 449bhp continuously) and 980lb ft of torque. That translates to a quoted 0-60mph time of 2.9sec and a promised towing capacity of more than 3600kg.'
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 09:46 (Ref:3981302)   #566
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Over the past 10 years the price to the consumer for electricity has doubled , [ mostly due to Green Loony policies ] , and it looks like it is going to go up again by a lot .
https://www.thegwpf.org/uk-consumers...rgy-blackouts/

Hornsea , [ biggest offshore wind farm in the world , ] is getting paid £162 per MWh . Low demand during lockdown has led to a wholesale grid price of just £20 per MWh . And the poor consumer will finish up paying higher prices to cover this madness .


At the moment , a lot of roadside EV chargers are costing about 30p per KWh , which works out at about the same fuel costs as an ICE car . Some charge sites , [ Ionity ] , work out a lot more expensive per mile than a petrol / diesel car.

But if the KWh unit cost for home consumers rises by much , then even home charging will make running an EV much more expensive than an ICE vehicle .
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 10:32 (Ref:3981310)   #567
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Over the past 10 years the price to the consumer for electricity has doubled , [ mostly due to Green Loony policies ] ,
Two queries:

How does a rise from 13.86 to 22.1 (euro cents per kilowatt-hour) amount to a doubling? It's a 59% rise.
How is this attributed to Green Loony policies? (I'm assuming you mean Green - I don't recall the OMRL party getting any policies approved)


Seriously though:
In the blue corner we have extreme views of a group who claim imminent doom due to climate change.
In the red corner we have extreme views of a group who claim imminent doom due to responses to climate change.

The reality - we're somewhere in the middle. The scale of climate change may be overplayed, and the catastrophic impacts of tackling the problem may be overplayed.

However the risks at each end of the extreme are being mitigated. This may result in certain commodities becoming more expensive, and the way we conduct our lives will have to adjust. But that's always been the case as society grows and develops, and the pace of change accelerates after every scientific revolution.
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 10:41 (Ref:3981316)   #568
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
Over the past 10 years the price to the consumer for electricity has doubled , [ mostly due to Green Loony policies ] , and it looks like it is going to go up again by a lot .
https://www.thegwpf.org/uk-consumers...rgy-blackouts/

Hornsea , [ biggest offshore wind farm in the world , ] is getting paid £162 per MWh . Low demand during lockdown has led to a wholesale grid price of just £20 per MWh . And the poor consumer will finish up paying higher prices to cover this madness .


At the moment , a lot of roadside EV chargers are costing about 30p per KWh , which works out at about the same fuel costs as an ICE car . Some charge sites , [ Ionity ] , work out a lot more expensive per mile than a petrol / diesel car.

But if the KWh unit cost for home consumers rises by much , then even home charging will make running an EV much more expensive than an ICE vehicle .

When they add the taxation lost as the ICE market melts it seems possible it will become even more expensive.
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 11:01 (Ref:3981323)   #569
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Two queries:

How does a rise from 13.86 to 22.1 (euro cents per kilowatt-hour) amount to a doubling? It's a 59% rise.
How is this attributed to Green Loony policies? (I'm assuming you mean Green - I don't recall the OMRL party getting any policies approved)


Seriously though:
In the blue corner we have extreme views of a group who claim imminent doom due to climate change.
In the red corner we have extreme views of a group who claim imminent doom due to responses to climate change.

The reality - we're somewhere in the middle. The scale of climate change may be overplayed, and the catastrophic impacts of tackling the problem may be overplayed.

However the risks at each end of the extreme are being mitigated. This may result in certain commodities becoming more expensive, and the way we conduct our lives will have to adjust. But that's always been the case as society grows and develops, and the pace of change accelerates after every scientific revolution.
If you cherry pick dates & numbers you can end up with what you like .
But a paper from 2018 shows prices rising by over 100% in the previous 7 years .
https://www.businessenergy.com/business-electricity/

And like Germany , [ which with its renewable policy has the highest price for electricity in the world , ] the more wind & solar power we take on , the much higher the cost .
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/...e-energy-2020/
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 13:12 (Ref:3981345)   #570
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Cherry picking. I don’t believe there has been any of that in this thread
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 13:27 (Ref:3981349)   #571
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All I can say is cheap power hasn't exactly served us well for the last few years has it? We run round like blue arsed flies consuming ever more, striving for ever more and never really being happy. Our world isn't the greatest place to live right now, even ignoring Coronavirus which has been spread simply BECAUSE of cheap travel.

What are you frightened of Tel? What's the worst that will happen if travel and power become more expensive? We use less of it. We stay home, we find other ways of working. We find a new model for.life. Good. Because the current one ain't that good.

TBH lockdown has been a good rehearsal. I'm back at work now and in five days I'm wiped. There must be something more to life than this.

Roll on the death of the ICE. It's not exactly going to be tomorrow so it'll be around long enough to see out my working life and after that it's really not my problem. But if we phase it out now my twilight years may just be a bit nicer.

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going.

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Old 11 Jun 2020, 14:05 (Ref:3981353)   #572
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All I can say is cheap power hasn't exactly served us well for the last few years has it? We run round like blue arsed flies consuming ever more, striving for ever more and never really being happy. Our world isn't the greatest place to live right now, even ignoring Coronavirus which has been spread simply BECAUSE of cheap travel.

What are you frightened of Tel? What's the worst that will happen if travel and power become more expensive? We use less of it. We stay home, we find other ways of working. We find a new model for.life. Good. Because the current one ain't that good.

TBH lockdown has been a good rehearsal. I'm back at work now and in five days I'm wiped. There must be something more to life than this.

Roll on the death of the ICE. It's not exactly going to be tomorrow so it'll be around long enough to see out my working life and after that it's really not my problem. But if we phase it out now my twilight years may just be a bit nicer.

It's being so cheerful as keeps me going.

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But it is not cheap power , is it . We pay about 70% tax on road fuels .
And huge amounts of money in various " Carbon Taxes " to pay for a " New World Socialist Government " to take over .

I am not frightened , but I do get annoyed by the blatant lies & propaganda put out by the politicians & media to try to get the public to believe in their Global Warming / Climate Change scam .

And there is no substitute for the ICE in a lot of uses . A transatlantic airliner is never going to get off the ground with 1500 tons of batteries .
Cargo ships would have to go back to sails . Freight transport would be almost impossible & enormously expensive without the diesel engine .
Farming / food production would be drastically reduced , and most large construction work would stop.

But if you want to give up your road vehicle for something which will not do anywhere near the same job & costs a huge amount more , then that is up to you .
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 14:24 (Ref:3981357)   #573
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Global Warming / Climate Change Scam. What do you mean by this? The whole thing is a scam? Or that justifying renewable energy from it is a scam?
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 15:23 (Ref:3981364)   #574
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Global Warming / Climate Change Scam. What do you mean by this? The whole thing is a scam? Or that justifying renewable energy from it is a scam?

One of the lead figures from the UN IPCC admitted that the whole Global warming / Climate Change idea is all about taking money from the Western world , destroying capitalism , & bringing about a Socialist New World Order.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/w...ng-capitalism/

And Michael Moore,s " Planet Of The Humans ", documentary shows just how much the renewable energy part is just a Scam . Although they have now managed to get the film banned from UTUBE , so you might not be able to find it now .
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Old 11 Jun 2020, 15:33 (Ref:3981370)   #575
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So climate change is real, but people are using it to scam money out of the western world?

Or is the whole thing fabricated for that end?
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