The Spa 6Hour 2010

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Listen again, the white car did lift but it looks like the Cortina moved over too soon and the white car may have run on the N/S kerbing and bounced slightly out again.

Well he certainly lifted, and although I didn't see much of a bounce he did hit the kerb. The red car maybe did turn in a bit quick given the circumstances. He was trusting the white car would stay outta the way.
To avoid the red car the White car needed to be pro-active ie; brake.
Would the red car have lifted as well in that corner? in order to get around it?
Usually if the white car lifted and the red car was 'buried' it would be long gone by the time they were on the next straight.

Was the white car another Mk1 cortina?

I thought it looked a tad callus in the vid with the white car driving on, while the red one obviously bounced down the track on its lid. But it is difficult to get an accurate picture of all the circumstances from one camera.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by SAMD

But it is difficult to get an accurate picture of all the circumstances from one camera.

That's exactly why, when people say "it's easy to attribute blame or cause -you have cameras in race control" I laugh. As you very correctly say, you can't get an accurate picture of all the circumstances from one camera. It can help, of course but personally, I would be very wary of making a decision based on the recording of one camera without additional evidence...... unless a driver says "it was all my fault"

[Tim Falce]

The other car was a Mk1 Cortina driven by a French driver.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

The other car was a Mk1 Cortina driven by a French driver.

Then you could say French = guilty ........ or you could say that anybody from the country that produces the best food, the best wine, the best women and the best motor race in the world must be blameless

You choose!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

The other car was a Mk1 Cortina driven by a French driver.

Originally Posted by johngee

Then you could say French = guilty ........ or you could say that anybody from the country that produces the best food, the best wine, the best women and the best motor race in the world must be blameless

You choose!

I'm not saying anything apart from the last time I drank their wine I was ill for 3 days, their wimin all end up fat and I thought the best motor race was produced by those two, Belgian blokes each September or October.

[zefarelly]

I thought it was a Herman?

Originally Posted by johngee

Then you could say French = guilty ........ or you could say that anybody from the country that produces the best food, the best wine, the best women and the best motor race in the world must be blameless

You choose!

twin cam powered ex fleet taxis are quicker than GT Cortinas, but I can honestly say, on a good day, thats flat in a GT . . . just, and I have run wide trying that, bottled on entry too, which is worse! etc etc etc ( probably as much to do with my old/crap set up and driving ability as it is lack of power)

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by johngee

That's exactly why, when people say "it's easy to attribute blame or cause -you have cameras in race control" I laugh.

I agree with you John.
If people would only learn NOT to comment on videos that only show half the action. If you don't see all of it: stay stumm.

Would would happen if I started to write reports in their way? Ban the whole field?

[zefarelly]

Eddy, I don't know half of it, and neither does anyone else who's only seen that one video clip, however.

Is it to be assumed (as with other incidents in the last year or two) that nothing really happens when, what must be considered a major, incident occurs? (I know people who have retired, or taken a year off etc)

Its far from just just tin tops, although they do seem to be considered the lowest common denominator, but smashing the **** out of 40+ year old cars, for fun, which cost upwards of a years salary aint exactly 'normal' behaviour . . .

I showed this video to a friend, and he thought it was a computer game.

thats bad.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I showed this video to a friend, and he thought it was a computer game.

thats bad.

I wondered what it was about the video that seemed odd - and that's it. Relatively high quality visual result but the wide angle means it looks like a computer game grab. I wonder what the recording system was?

[FISCracer]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

The other car was a Mk1 Cortina driven by a French driver.

We can all draw our own conclusions, just good that nobody was seriously injured, except in the wallet.

May I suggest stopping the video at 32 secs ie prior to impact and looking at the attitude of the red car.....

I also noted damage further up the wing which begs the question about what had happened earlier on that first lap.

BTW all accidents are avoidable, although some may be caused by things outside the driver's control.

[Peter Mallett]

In 2009 we qualified about 4 secs a lap faster than previous years although in the race my fastest lap was two secs slower than qualifying, which was probably due to all the overtaking. I followed a Porsche into Blanchiment and I was pedal to the metal as they say. Half way through the Porsche lifted and I had nowhere to go and spun. Similarly the very next lap I was slightly slower but gaining on a brown Mustang. He did exactly the same thing but a bit further into the corner, thus I clipped the wall and dinged a wing and my steering.

The point being that unless there is a vast speed differential, Blanchiment is not really an overtaking opportunity, you have to wait until you get to the Bus Stop.

This is not a comment on the video, because it raises as many questions as it answers, but more a point of fact concerning that corner.

[simon drabble]

the problem is very simply that weekend warriors often believe they are current tin top drivers and run out of talent.....

[compte deGraves]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

I'm not saying anything apart from the last time I drank their wine I was ill for 3 days, their wimin all end up fat and I thought the best motor race was produced by those two, Belgian blokes each September or October.

You go too far Sir. La Comtesse (59) is as thin as the day I married her. If you had said French women get more bad tempered as they grow older I would, however, agree with you.

In my Volpini and in the Lotus Elite (1960) Blanchiment is flat and wanting more speed. The red car moved over and I do not understand why he did not stay out wider to give the white car more room. If he is French that explains everything. The current driving standards in French motor racing are appalling. If you really want to scare yourself to death do a French club race.

[Peter Horsman]

I was at Charade a couple of years ago, and one race was very seriously wet indeed - big-time rain. And there was a saloon race - all French drivers - and there was not one flag incident. I, for one, was impressed.

[simon drabble]

I do't know the full story but it does look like the red car having overtaken pulled in front quite aggressively - several Chevron B8 drivers in Guards have a habit of doing that.. its completely unneccessary and this poor chap paid a big price for doing it....

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

May I suggest stopping the video at 32 secs ie prior to impact and looking at the attitude of the red car.....

Yes, even I, as a non racer noted that and that it was pre impact.

[Peter Horsman]

By attitude, do you mean in relation to the track (as opposed to in relation to the white car, on which I make no comment)? If so, then as a racer and on occasion a racer of LC's, its attitude would seem to me to be ok for an LC.

I am not sure that we can really blame one party for this, especially on an open forum, but maybe note that it would seem to have been an unnecessary accident which caused much damage and could have caused much more.

[henry mann]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

May I suggest stopping the video at 32 secs ie prior to impact and looking at the attitude of the red car.....

I also noted damage further up the wing which begs the question about what had happened earlier on that first lap.

Surely a Cortina sliding a little is no surprise? And there was no damage to the red and gold car before Blanchimont. I have the video from the car (which incidentally shows the French Cortina off the track twice on that fateful first lap) and wish I could post it on here... Still, I think it would be hard to lay the blame fully on either driver.

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by henry mann

Surely a Cortina sliding a little is no surprise? And there was no damage to the red and gold car before Blanchimont. I have the video from the car (which incidentally shows the French Cortina off the track twice on that fateful first lap) and wish I could post it on here... Still, I think it would be hard to lay the blame fully on either driver.

Proper gent given it was your car Henry!

Top bloke.

[delta]

Originally Posted by henry mann

Surely a Cortina sliding a little is no surprise? And there was no damage to the red and gold car before Blanchimont. I have the video from the car (which incidentally shows the French Cortina off the track twice on that fateful first lap) and wish I could post it on here... Still, I think it would be hard to lay the blame fully on either driver.

Nice post Henry probably time to move on me thinks.

[GORDON STREETER]

As this is a public forum I will make a "comment".
Unless the driver of the white Cortina has got tunnel vision he was (or should) have been aware that the other car was there and he was being overtaken.
I don't know the driver involved or anything about him (age/years in racing/results) but IMHO he should have seen this incident coming and slowed slightly.

I do know John Young and have raced in different series with him over the years finding him to be a good clean driver (especially in other peoples cars).
If the French driver is that good why did he have to change down after Stavelot making me wonder how many times he has raced there ? Also It would be good to show the footage from the red Cortina regarding the driving standards of the other cars pilot.
A totally unnecessary incident that could have had really serious results !!

Saying all this I will point out that this will happen in big races where you don't know how good half of the field is on the day

[John Turner]

Well, I think that there has been support implied on this thread for both drivers and some fine diplomacy, so let's say a racing incident, thankfully without injury, albeit one that most think should have been avoidable. As Roger says a very well considered response from Henry which, I agree with Iain, should now allow us to move on.

[simon drabble]

wouldn't happen if they allowed sports racers instead of tin tops!

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

wouldn't happen if they allowed sports racers instead of tin tops!

But where would a sports racer fit in U2TC?

[John Turner]

Dog with a bone!