Siffert and Rodriguez: Did they get along

[Christian S]

I have a question regarding the relationship between the two JW Automotive (And in F1 BRM team-mates) Jo Siffert and Pedro Rodriguez.

Did they get along?

I have the impression that they didn't. I don't know why maybe it was something Siffert once said. "Each time we go out on the track that little "XXXXX" tries to kill me. Is there someone who can confirm this.

[jclab]

Hi Christian S,

Pedro and Seppi didn't get along well and that started in 1970 at the 1000km of Spa. Both were driving Porsche 917 for the John Wyer team. Pedro got the pole from Jo and Siffert got a better start; they got to Eau Rouge side by side, Pedro's car touching Jo's dangerously and all that year, the competition was vicious between the two of them.

In 1971, Jo signed with BRM and who was his teamate:Pedro Rodriguez. They, both were also with Porsche in sportscar that year. A strange destiny was going to bond them together in death as they were going to hate each other until Pedro's death at the Norisring in a minor race.
Hate was a big word; jealousy would be a better word, although they had mutual admiration for each other.

They were similar drivers and they always gave everything they had and often across the thin line between life and death.

[Christian S]

Hi Jclab

Thank you for your reply. I was actually of that believed, but I didn’t have anything to link it too. so your reply confirmed my suspicion. Thanks a lot

[Dr. Austin]

Occasionally, i run into brian redman at the historic races. i will ask him because he was right in the middle of it all. Another guy who would have the answer is John Horstman, but he doesn't seem to go as much. He and I talked about the 917's aero problems for about 45 minutes. Like redman, he is a fascinating character and a good example of the sport's great gentlemen.

I think the two of them had a fierce rivalry. Wyer choose rodrigeuz and Kinnunen. Siffert and Redman came from Porsche as part of the package, and if i remember correctly, they were paid by Porsche to drive for wyer. As a result of this, there were suspicions of favortism for Rodrigeuz/Kinnunen. The Spa incident was just siffert (and/or rodigeuz) being bullheaded and not giving an inch.

They managed to do it without taking each other out or it getting too dangerous. It was a wet start and these were the baddest cars on the planet at the time. They could have easily killed each other in the blink of an eye, but they kept it reasonable and just drove through the world's hairiest corner rubbing doors. After seeing the video of this, it is hard for me to envision any of today's drivers as "great."

Siffert and Redman had not yet won a race in the gulf 917's (though the dominated the Targa in the pretty little 908) and they were both anxious to prove they could master the beast. And they did. The race average was just under 150mph including pitstops. On public roads. Lined with buildings and trees. And ditches. Today's racing is pretty pedestrian by comparison.

I am pretty sure that Siffert and Rodrigeuz merely had a hard professional relationship. It was during the days when a good rivalry was healthy, unlike today's "deliberate, but instinctual" attitude. All of this information, and the picture, came from Peter Morgan's excellent book, Porsche 917, the winning formula. It is a riveting read that you won't be able to put down. You won't. I opened it to look at the pictures and the next thing I knew, it was 5 am and I was done! He also has in print "Porsche in motorsport, the first fifty years," which is an equally fascinating read. From now on, I will automatically buy whatever morgan writes, especially any Porsche books.

[Dr. Austin]

And, I forgot, morgan states that Perdo's death had a sobering effect on a distraight Siffert. They may have liked each other after all. Maybe respect is a better word.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
The race average was just under 150mph including pitstops. On public roads. Lined with buildings and trees. And ditches. Today's racing is pretty pedestrian by comparison.

I generally agree to differ with the good Dr. but on this ocaision I'll simply say that if ever you get a chance, visit Spa and drive the old circuit. I challenge anyone to come away with less than a complete respect for the drivers who raced on there.

Saying that, the current configuration, whilst shorter, can still give one a very serious bite.

As to our two protagonists. I've read elsewhere that it was really respect rather than wariness or dislike.

Still its very sad to realise that these two characters are no longer with us.

Siffert I believe, had his March F1 car nailed to a wall in his house.

[Christian S]

Hi Dr. Austin

Thank you for your post. The picture of Siffert and Rodriguez. Where was it taken.

Best

Christian

[Christian S]

Hi again Dr. Austin

Regarding Brian Redman. Please do I must certainly would be nice to hear what his expirence during 1970.

Best Christian

[Nordic]

You may want to have a look at 'Strictly off the record' by Louis Stanley, he was the team owner of BRM and employed them both.
The book is quite a good read, often very sad, he clearly felt strongly on driver saftey and was appalled at the lack of track safety.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Christian S
[B]Hi again Dr. Austin

"Regarding Brian Redman. Please do I must certainly would be nice to hear what his expirence during 1970."

I hope to see Mr. Redman at the Sebring historic races in november or so. Then there are the December ones at Daytona.
both of them got moved around last year as a result of 9/11, and I'm not sure when they are. All I have to do is go to the web site though. too lazy, I guess.

He and his son, James, run Interconteniental Events, which promotes vintage races.

http://www.gorace.com/

So Brian is on the scene even at the competing Historic Racing Series (HRS) events.

He has a little Chevron that he won the under 2-litre championship with and he flogs it so hard you wonder what keeps it together. I saw him blow off a 962 in the rain at Daytona. I'll bet that guy was surprised.

The picture of Siffert and Rodrigeuz came from Peter Morgan's book and he didn't say where the location was. Morgan explained that the two had a fierce rivalry, and both suspected the other was getting preferential treatment, Rodrigeuz/Kinnunen from Wyer, and Siffert/Redman from the factory. Appearantly, Wyer just let them race each other and was unconserned with any rivalry between them. I guess the guys then were professional and smart enough not to go punting each other off into unprotected buildings and trees. Racing was so dangerous then that we saw virtually no unchecked behavior.

[Hans.ca]

Have to agree with the good Dr. Austin. Fierce rivals yes but not hating each other. Seppi was extremely introverted and his relations with others sometimes suffered. I dont think it was Seppi that had an F1 car in his house I know for a fact that Jo Bonnier had one hanging in his Gallerie in Geneva I think.
Perhaps to explain the competitive nature of Pedro, the following memories.
When Pedro and his brother Ricardo raced for NART at a Mosport sportscar race they ignored everybody else and continuousely beat up on each other. After the race NART anounced to us that they would never again let the two brothers race against each other in there cars.