Ferrari boss arrogance.

[Spudgun]

Luca di Montezemolo smugly believes they are going to get away with the whole fiasco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/engli...00/1987198.stm

Granted, knowing them they'll get away with the race finish, but I think the podium incident might bring some form of punishment.

Montezemolo's arrogant attitude is not helping the situation if people feel the way I do. I had to count to ten when I read it.

[laudaman]

How he is qualified to talk about "50 years of history, wins and passion" when what what his team have done is stamped all over EF's grave really, really disgusts me.

[Jukebox]

Wins....hell YEAH! but passion?...hmmm

Anyway he has every right to say all those things cause Ferrari are definitely the best outfit in F1 history. Like he said, the fans will come to think it back and understand. Although i was a bit emotional at first, but slowly when i think back i had to agree. But that dosen't mean i like them but i just kinda understand why.

[Spudgun]

He should really have said 50 years of history and wins, but only 40 years of passion. As I said in another thread, the passion died with Enzo.

[laudaman]

As I've said before - Ferrari is no more and hasn't been since Michael came and Fiat took over. The cars aren't even scarlet anymore for Christ's sake.

I always felt there used to be a degree of mystery about Ferrari. Now, I just regard them as any other team

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by laudaman
As I've said before - Ferrari is no more and hasn't been since Michael came and Fiat took over.

What do you mean by that....he's the defending WDC and have 4 WDC titles to his name. He's a brilliant driver, that you have to admit whether you like it or not. Don't judge him over what Todt had asked Rubens and him to do.

[laudaman]

What I mean is that when Enzo was there, his philosophy was that no driver was bigger than HIS team - Fangio, Surtees, Lauda, Villeneuve,etc. TGF is doing his best, IMO, to defy this.

[Glen]

So, by obeying his team he is trying to be bigger than the team? Yea - that makes sense. I think it's precisely because they are such a passionate and committed team that they are able to make this error of judgement. So driven to their goals are they that they failed to notice that the season has only just started.

Enzo practically wrote the book on team orders - so I can't see the difference.

[Jukebox]

I guess they wanted a secured assurance for the WDC & WCC.

[Spudgun]

OK. So they want Michael to get the title, so they give all the points to Michael.

What if, God forbid, something similar happened to Michael as it did in 1999? They would be shafted for the WDC with Rubens floundering with barely not nearly as many points.

But then they would say that the WCC is more important than the WDC. So why are they desparate for Michael to have the wins?

Surely they should help Rubens to second in the WDC as a contingency plan at least..

[Jukebox]

Rubens only have 6 points to his name before the race and if he takes the win, he'll have 16 points. That is still behind Ralf & JPM.

After TGF secures his WDC, we'll see Rubens winning races for sure

[drexel]

Do people have any idea what they are speaking about when they use phrases like "bigger than the team"?
Did they have a brainfade during 99...Tell me who was bigger than the team.
Making decisions that don't take into account the driver's feelings is the hard defintition of team. Should Schumacher say 'no' because it will make hm look bad in the public's eyes? Now that is putting yourself above the team.

[Glen]

Exactly, drexel. People slag Michael for being above everybody and so self-important that things like the team come second - and in the next breath they slag him for not being big enough to go against the team. Which is a perfectly good example of people disliking him so much that they can't string a decent argument together for "frothing at the mouth!"

[Liz]

Remember how they managed to lose Eddie's wheel in 1999? And remember how they forced TGF back into the car although he didn't want to drive any more, even though Eddie could easily have won the championship at that point with the same support they gave TGF?

Is this an example of a concern for the team? I think not.

A man who makes $85 million per year can't really be offered a raise. What if they offered him a few guaranteed WDCs if he'd sign the contract?

20 years ago last week, Ferrari's greatest driver of the modern age was killed in a horrible crash as a direct result of being cheated out of a race win with the connivance of Ferrari -- and a snide, political teammate. To celebrate the 20th anniversary of Gilles' death by doing the same thing again is proof positive that the current lot have learned nothing from history.

[drexel]

Remember how they managed to lose Eddie's wheel in 1999?

What! The same team that manged to give Michael a few engine stalls/blow-ups at crucial times in the last three years, not to mention brake failures and broken legs!

And remember how they forced TGF back into the car although he didn't want to drive any more,

Malaysia 99 was a pretty impressive performance by a guy not wanting to race.

even though Eddie could easily have won the championship at that point with the same support they gave TGF?

Schumacher has had his teammate move over for him about 3 times in 7 years. Eddie needed that to happen 4 times in 5 races.

[Liz]

He never got the same support that TGF had. And if you think they lost that wheel by accident, you have never met or worked with any pit crews. That is something that simply does not happen.

And as for TGF's special treatment, just ask anyone who has been his No. 2 over his long career. You won't hear anyone saying "He was my favourite person."

[Muzza]

Originally posted by laudaman
As I've said before - Ferrari is no more and hasn't been since Michael came and Fiat took over. The cars aren't even scarlet anymore for Christ's sake.

I always felt there used to be a degree of mystery about Ferrari. Now, I just regard them as any other team

Sadly, Ferrari has been bending the rules, and receiving "a special treatment" by the FIA for decades.

For my opinion on this concern, please read my several postings under the thread

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=21565

The only good thing about the outcome of the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix is that many young F-1 fans lost their innocence about what was once a sport.

Don't let the ends justify the means. This is what is at stake.

[f1manoz]

It was 38 years of wins and passion up until 1988 when the great Enzo Ferrari died.

Since 1996, it's been 5 years and counting of greed, deception, lies, cover-ups and cheating (well, these were accusations for the most part. Nothing has ever really been proved, which is a shame.) Well, actually, 1996 was a clean year. So from 1997 on.....

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

Originally posted by laudaman
How he is qualified to talk about "50 years of history, wins and passion" when what what his team have done is stamped all over EF's grave really, really disgusts me.

Your post clearly lacka a true appreciation of the realities of Ferrari - EF was the original team orders man - not just with Ferrari, but also when he ran Alfa Romeo's GP team before the second world war.

Where on Earth did you get the idea this would be stamping on his grave? More likely he would be dancing in the streets (albeit in a Michael Jackson Thriller video zombie kind of way).

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

Originally posted by laudaman
As I've said before - Ferrari is no more and hasn't been since Michael came and Fiat took over. The cars aren't even scarlet anymore for Christ's sake.

I always felt there used to be a degree of mystery about Ferrari. Now, I just regard them as any other team

AND ANOTHER THING!

Seriosuly laudaman nothing personal but I can't let this post go either. FIAT did not take over when Michael joined. FIAT took over over 20 years ago. They used to even carry the FIAT logo for years in the 1980s! The cars have not ben scarlet for a similar amount of time.....they have actually changed shades several times since the late 1970s to come across as scarlet on TV.

I might also add that Ferrari have largely cheated their way through F1 since the 1950s. When they weren't cheating they were issuing team orders (legally). The irony being that this mother of all outcries has occurred since something perfectly legal took place at Austria last weekend.

[paulzinho]

Yes but would Enzo have used team orders like Todt did on Sunday? Do you think Enzo learned from what happenned to Gilles? Team Orders play a part but on Sunday, given the season and that race, they clearly were not necessary.

Put another way, what if Rubens were to lose out on the title by 4 points? Makes a mockeray of F1 does it not?

[Muzza]

Oh, now we have a new urban legend. Enzo Ferrari is actually Babbo Natale (Santa Claus). Or the good, friendly capo di Mafia.

I am astonished to see so many comments saying "Ferrari under Enzo was different". Sorry boys, the fairy tale is over. No, Ferrari was just the same under Enzo.

Ferrari has been engaged in the same sort of the rule bending (I am not talking of exploring loopholes in the rules) and has been received a handy from the FIA since the early sixties, when your Babbo Natale already threatened to pull Ferrari out of the F-1 Championship due to his opposition to what he called La Mafia Inglesa (the English teams).

I seriously recommend some of you to read magazines of past decades, or good books about the history of motorsport. It will be an enlightening experience.

But it may also shock some of you. Losing one's innocence is always a traumatic experience.

[paulzinho]

Muzza, I am fully aware that enzo used team orders, however to my knowledge he wouldn't have done what Todt did on Sunday. He would have been pleased that his two cars were out front though, that is for sure.

[Gt_R]

Its ironical people actually dragged in "The Gilles Incident" into this argument.

That time round, team orders were issued. The orders were disobeyed and that indirectly caused Gilles death, many believed. And everybody were ****ed off that Team Orders that day was breached.

This time round, many many years later, while remembering that tragedy, Michael and Rubens did what many years ago people wanted, that is to obey team orders. They did, but people being people, now they were ****ed that orders were obeyed...and believed that Michael should just breach team orders.

What the?!!

Another thing worth noting...that Glen said :"People slag Michael for being above everybody and so self-important that things like the team come second - and in the next breath they slag him for not being big enough to go against the team. Which is a perfectly good example of people disliking him so much that they can't string a decent argument together for "frothing at the mouth!" "

Ha...how ironical these critics are!


Quote laudaman:"The cars (ferrari) aren't even scarlet anymore for Christ's sake."

Err...try telling that to the British and Jaguar... the cars aren't even British Green anymore for Christ's sake! Well...it was NEVER British Green in the first place...so does that lose the appeal of the Jaguar name?

[Gt_R]

And before anybody continues to reply, may i just clarify something...

BBC, the nationality of which is obvious, and the side which the original poster is on is quite apparent (no offense), to quite and extent altered the "feeling" of Luca which may lead to misunderstandings.

Quote: "Luca di Montezemolo smugly believes they are going to get away with the whole fiasco....
Montezemolo's arrogant attitude is not helping the situation if people feel the way I do. I had to count to ten when I read it."

Firstly, Luca is not smug, and if you just read the interview with a clear mind, and not be bended by the author of the article, you perhaps might see that it is not arrogant too.. Remember, certain press tend to have personal agendas and political aims.