MW vs. Alonso

[neilap]

He seems to qualify really well but then gets "Trulli-itis" when it really counts. Exactly what happened on the start? Also, what was he trying with Alonso. I can understand protecting your position but he took it a bit too far. This is the second race that someone almost took FA out. He made JPM look pretty ordinary when he attempted and then checked up a little took the better line into turn one and made the pass. He made MW look ordinary too.

[f1atic]

Originally posted by neilap
. . . what was he trying with Alonso. I can understand protecting your position but he took it a bit too far. . .

Well, I think it had the marshals curiousity up also. The reason of the penalty.

That was shabby and not something I would have ever though Webber would try. I was most disappointed. I doubt we'll see a repeat of that behavior. The mistake was costly.

I think Mark will get over it and get on with racing though.

[enemy-ace]

I thought the penalty was for speeding in the pit-lane. Mark was a little hyper-aggressive today, but I think that can be put down to his frustration at his bad start from second on the grid. Alonso is no stranger when it comes to on track aggression either, so I would say they are pretty equal there. I think Webber's race pace can more than likely be put down to a car that is still in a development cycle. The car is reasonably quick but it lacks reliabilty and consistency, which is something that I don't think can be accounted to Webber. The Renault on the other hand is a solid car, and I think if Webber were in it he would push Alonso very hard. Webber is the real deal and I personally hope he stays with Jag and helps bring them to the front.

[Wrex]

Ok, now take your 2D glasses off and put the 3D ones on.

He did'nt push Alonso anywhere. For that Alonso would have to have been beside him, he was not. The camera angle made it look worse than it was.

What really happened was Alonso faked to the right and passed on the left. A brilliant move.

No critism for the block move, but thumbs down for falling for that great move by Alonso.


BTW, he was never ivestigated for the move, the penalty was for speeding in pit lane.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by neilap
This is the second race that someone almost took FA out. He made JPM look pretty ordinary when he attempted and then checked up a little took the better line into turn one and made the pass.

I presume we are talking about Australia here Neil? :confused:

If we are, i don't recall JPM nearly taking Alonso out at the start, and as for making him look ordinary, Montoya made a mistake, something he readily admitted too after the race, but it was his own mistake, not something that Alonso forced him into.

However, i can't take nothing away from Alonso's race in Australia, that is why i voted for him in Wrex's "man of the race" thread after Oz.

Didn't think he looked too special today though, dispite having a brilliant first stint. Trulli looked the better Renault driver today imo.

[Red]

Originally posted by f1atic
Well, I think it had the marshals curiousity up also. The reason of the penalty.

Well, he got it for speeding in pitlane. Anyway, since this season they don't give such penalties anymore. The penalties will be served next race thus giving teams and stewards more time to analyze and/or apeal.

[neilap]

I would like to see Webber in a car that can win and with a teammate that is worth the race seat.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by neilap
I would like to see Webber in a car that can win and with a teammate that is worth the race seat.

Next year, Webber and Button in the Williams

*please Sir Frank*

[DieRitter]

Mark and Alonso are great drivers.

But it wasn't Mark's day. Poor start, puncture and Alonso's fantastic move is just another lesson to learn.

He's an intelligent driver and will bounce back in the next round.

[Mark Webber]

I don't think Marks move on Alonso was in bad taste all . Yes it was firm but by that stage I'm sure Mark was not in the best frame of mined . It was a very bad day what could go wrong did ! .One bad race doesn't put Mark in the "Trulli-itis" bin . I'm really looking foward to Bahrain .
But geez when it rains !

[neilap]

Originally posted by Mr V
I presume we are talking about Australia here Neil? :confused:

If we are, i don't recall JPM nearly taking Alonso out at the start, and as for making him look ordinary, Montoya made a mistake, something he readily admitted too after the race, but it was his own mistake, not something that Alonso forced him into.

Here is how I saw that incident...

Monty saw the start that FA made, he defended forcing FA onto the grass. Alonso retaliated by forcing JPM across the track and held him there till he knew there was no way JPM would make the turn fast enough to be a threat. Alonso then took the faster line in and JPM attempted to brake later on the dirty side of the track.

I think Webber was way out of line. Its like was MS used to do. Its all fun and games till someone loses an eye!

Maybe MW does not have Trulli-itis. I hope he does not get it either, even though he did downplay the pace of a certain team that I like.

But then again what do I know.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by Wrex
He did'nt push Alonso anywhere. For that Alonso would have to have been beside him, he was not. The camera angle made it look worse than it was.

Webber clearly blocked. He took it way too far. He didn't run him into the wall persay, but his blocking manouver was wild. I completely agree that getting by Webber was a fantasic move.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Trulli who was involved in the starting pass of Webber?!?

[twig]

Im sure this is coming from the typical bias of a Webber supporter because of my nationality, but i am surprised that the same crowd who apparently are desperate to see some racing, battles and fighting are also having a go at Webber for blocking too much and battling.

I thought it was the best part of an otherwise boring race.

Oh, and i think that the pass that Alonso made on Webber was a fantastic one, but the battle was also very good.

[jetsetter]

Firstly Webbers starting problems were down to a software glitch in the Jaguars which also affected Klein's start, as for the Alonso incident i thought it was great to see Webber being so agressive providing some excellent racing in which F1 has been sadly lacking in the recent history of the sport & finally the penalty which Webber served during the race was actually for speeding in the pit lane & not for any on track misdemeanour.

[Skam85]

Originally posted by neilap
I would like to see Webber in a car that can win and with a teammate that is worth the race seat.

Agreed that Webber deserves a race winning car, but don't think I agree with the 2nd part of that comment. Klien has driven two solid first races, kept it on the island, and yesterday was only a couple of retirements off a point. Much better that Wilson and Pizzonia managed IMO.

[golem]

I think that Jag is a much better car than last year, Skam. And as for that matter, so is this year's BAR.

If I was Jenson, I would SERIOUSLY have to think if I actually wanted a Williams seat. If BAR under Dave Richards / Prodrive keeps this up, and Honda can keep improving in such a manner compared to last year, then he already has a competitive seat. On the summer break, I think everyone will be in a better position to say for sure, one way or the other.

[shiny side up!]

Originally posted by jetsetter
[B]Firstly Webbers starting problems were down to a software glitch in the Jaguars which also affected Klein's start...[B]

I thought we finally got away from that this year by banning launch control! Errrrrr!

[Mark Webber]

LC yes but anti stall is here to stay

[Mr V]

Originally posted by neilap
Here is how I saw that incident...

Monty saw the start that FA made, he defended forcing FA onto the grass. Alonso retaliated by forcing JPM across the track and held him there till he knew there was no way JPM would make the turn fast enough to be a threat. Alonso then took the faster line in and JPM attempted to brake later on the dirty side of the track.

mmm, here is how i saw it....

Due to the Renaults superior starting ability, FA had to take to the grass if he was to get around JPM. Once upto speed, the BMW got the better of FA, but by this time was too fast going into the turn. JPM made a mistake, but i don't think that FA forced him into it.

[racer69]

Isn't the commonly accepted rule (started by Schumacher), that you can make one definate move down the straight to protect your line. Webber moved once across the track protecting his position.

There was nothing wrong with it at all. He wasn't penalised for it, so the officials didn't think anything of it, and as far as i know Alonso hasn't said anything either, so it didn't bother him.

[Mark Webber]

yes Webber move was a non issue

[Skam85]

Exactly!! You watch the middle stages of last year's Japanese Grand Prix when Michael and Ralf were battling for position on the main straight, it was almost identical to the Mark vs. Alonso battle on Sunday. Perfectly fair and it shows to me Mark is becoming more and more of a RACER as time progresses.

[300kph]

MW and FA are still picking lessons around the tracks. It is interesting to see how fast they can learn from those mistakes. At the moment, it seems that FA has a little advantage on preassure-handling than MW.....Lessons at the top cost a lot......

[DAVID PATERSON]

According to the rules, if someone is alongside, you must give them room, if they are behind you, you are entitled to take the line of your choice, however, you may only change tack ONCE on the straight, to cross and go back again is weaving and is not allowed.

Consider the above and you should be able to see that Webber's move on Alonso was perfectly OK. Kudos to Alonso though for his counter move.

[chunterer]

Did Alonso complain about it?