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Old 24 Nov 2022, 08:15 (Ref:4134693)   #1
Taxi645
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F1 considering to introduce wheel arches

F1 considering to introduce wheel arches.

So as most of you are probably aware F1 is considering to introduce wheel arches somewhere during the 2023 season.


Here is another article on the matter:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1-wh...a-2021-fiasco/


Some take away's:
Tombazis also stressed that there is no desire to design the wheel arches “to be removed or fitted in a rush”, meaning that they would only be put onto the cars before sessions or races or during red flag periods.
He also stressed that if the race starts wet and then dries up, the wheel arches would remain on the cars to the end of the grand prix.

So if there is heavy rain say half an hour before the start and than no more rain, they either will postpone the race or fit the arches and have to run the wheel arches for what might be an 80% dry race. Doesn't sound like a great plan to me.


Pirelli is indicating that if with these arches they are going to run in much wetter conditions, they need to know in time because the current full wets are not designed for these conditions because currently the cars without arches would not run in those conditions.


“If the idea is to have a device that is avoiding to have spray in the air and the visibility is much better so they are running in full wet conditions, we need this information to design tyres to cope with these conditions because the intermediate tyre is not a tyre for heavy rain conditions, the aquaplaning resistance of the intermediate is not designed for that.”

It all sure does sound quite rushed to me.

Rather see they indeed research how much is caused by the wider tyres and how much is caused by the ground effect aerodynamics and only after thoroughly analysing the finding, decide on what would be the best cause of action.


If it was found that the amount of spray of these wider tyres does play a big part then it would be interesting to model what the effect of a 5cm narrower tyre would have. Not only would a narrower tyre sling less spray into the air it would also be 5cm further away (at equal car width) from the most active upwards aero.
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Old 24 Nov 2022, 09:34 (Ref:4134706)   #2
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Just a simple thought but, I would expect that in order to have any significant effect in reducing spray the wheel arches would have to also wrap around the sidewalls of the tyres too. Surely this will cause a problem with tyre changes should the conditions dry out?
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Old 24 Nov 2022, 21:44 (Ref:4134760)   #3
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Can see all sorts of headaches with the idea of arches.
  • Firstly, there is the question of the impact on aero - could the arches make it harder to overtake again for example?
  • Then there's the question of where the spray comes from - realistically how much is from the tyres themselves?
  • If a large percentage of the spray DOES come directly off the tyres now - does fitting wheel arches mean that spay will now be directed back onto the tyre and track surface - meaning less clearing of the track due to cars running, more risk of aquaplaning and maybe overloading the tyre's capacity to deal with water.
  • Then there is the question of attachment methodology - if fitted during a race won't be scrutineered so is there surety on how safe - also, will the arches deal OK with impacts from other cars or are they likely to fly off easily?
No doubt there are many other things to consider as that short list is straight off the top of my head on first thought.

Sounds like a thought bubble that hasn't been really examined so don't know how serious they are.
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Old 24 Nov 2022, 21:47 (Ref:4134761)   #4
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Given the time limits on races and how races affected by weather seem to always get cut short as a result, I’m skeptical of anything that could potentially add time and work to a red flag period? Maybe a moot concern though?
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Old 25 Nov 2022, 04:49 (Ref:4134812)   #5
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When is an open wheeler not n open wheeler? When it has guards that cover the wheels?
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Old 25 Nov 2022, 09:30 (Ref:4134830)   #6
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
Just a simple thought but, I would expect that in order to have any significant effect in reducing spray the wheel arches would have to also wrap around the sidewalls of the tyres too. Surely this will cause a problem with tyre changes should the conditions dry out?
I think the problem is more in the interaction between the tyre spray and the underside of the car in the centre. This for two reasons; 1 The underside sucks even more spray and throws it into the air and 2 I suspect the air in the centre is so turbulent that the spray is turn into a mist that reduces visibility even more and also stays suspended longer. The outside of the tyre does not have these problems (as much), so I don't expect that to be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Can see all sorts of headaches with the idea of arches.
  • Firstly, there is the question of the impact on aero - could the arches make it harder to overtake again for example?
  • Then there's the question of where the spray comes from - realistically how much is from the tyres themselves?
  • If a large percentage of the spray DOES come directly off the tyres now - does fitting wheel arches mean that spay will now be directed back onto the tyre and track surface - meaning less clearing of the track due to cars running, more risk of aquaplaning and maybe overloading the tyre's capacity to deal with water.
  • Then there is the question of attachment methodology - if fitted during a race won't be scrutineered so is there surety on how safe - also, will the arches deal OK with impacts from other cars or are they likely to fly off easily?
No doubt there are many other things to consider as that short list is straight off the top of my head on first thought.

Sounds like a thought bubble that hasn't been really examined so don't know how serious they are.
Agreed on all accounts. What if such a wheel arch make contact with a fast spinning tyre when there is contact between two cars and where will blade like shape then fly off to?
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Old 25 Nov 2022, 10:55 (Ref:4134858)   #7
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From all of the comments above it would appear that fitting mudguards to F1 cars in order to reduce the spray in wet conditions then is a complete non-starter.
(I just wonder why it was suggested in the first place? There couldn't have been a lot of thought put into it).
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Old 25 Nov 2022, 12:09 (Ref:4134871)   #8
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
From all of the comments above it would appear that fitting mudguards to F1 cars in order to reduce the spray in wet conditions then is a complete non-starter.
(I just wonder why it was suggested in the first place? There couldn't have been a lot of thought put into it).
May as well require a full body.

But why not put the responsibility on the track design?

A new surface and construction approach with self drying capabilities could have an eventual spinoff into the real world.
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Old 25 Nov 2022, 14:36 (Ref:4134892)   #9
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
From all of the comments above it would appear that fitting mudguards to F1 cars in order to reduce the spray in wet conditions then is a complete non-starter.
(I just wonder why it was suggested in the first place? There couldn't have been a lot of thought put into it).
Personally I think they manoeuvred themselves a bit into a difficult spot. The ground effect cars in combination with the wider tires have proven to be quite headache regarding wet races this year.

They can't get rid of the ground effect cars, because it has improved dry racing a lot. I certainly don't want it to go because of the wet racing problems.

Then there are the wider tyres they can't get rid of without loosing face just one year after introduction.

On the other hand they have to do SOMETHING regarding the wet weather running. This year wet racing proceedings were just a sorry mess compared to the brilliant wet weather races from the (recent) past. So they don't want to touch the ground effect (thank god) and they don't want to touch the wider tyres (yet), when they should, so what options are there than those that come across as very desperate?

To be honest, 5cm narrow tyres at the same car width, would reduce the spray a bit and pull it away 5cm from the diffuser and it's violently turbulent suction, but I could imagine it would still be worse than we had before.
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Old 26 Nov 2022, 18:03 (Ref:4134971)   #10
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Surely with severe wet weather tyres they should be running a narrower tyre? At least they used to when Bridgestone ran the show. How much of the problem would that alleviate? Narrower tyre = better in aquaplaning situations, better at reducing spray as less water is picked up. Wheel covers wouldn’t solve the aquaplaning problem anyway, the two things are not connected.
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