Congratulations to Max Verstappen - 2022 Champion

[GT6]

Max has never been a "team player" and that will be his downfall, he is lossing respect and as that happens he will slowly lose fans and eventually even the orange army will start to fad away.

[greentrumpet]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If he is confirming what is known than there is little reason to get exited is there?

About paying wages. An employee decides how to do his job, an employer decides if he keeps it.

I'm certainly not excited about this, which does seem to be a leak designed to benefit Max rather than damage the team which the cap leak certainly did. It does give me a bit of a chuckle especially in the light of the "2021 WDC*"

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If he is confirming what is known than there is little reason to get exited is there?

About paying wages. An employee decides how to do his job, an employer decides if he keeps it.

A little naive, I'd suggest.... It's been a very easy WDC for Max this year. If Mercedes are 'resurgent' (time will tell) then it may not be so easy next season. Max may need Checo's assistance a little more. If it had been for a place on the podium, possibly more understandable - but for 6th?

[VIVA GT]

I had revised my opinion about Max this season. I'd started to think he'd finally started to grow up.
Now, after this race I've realised that he is still the petulant spoilt little boy that he always has been.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I had revised my opinion about Max this season. I'd started to think he'd finally started to grow up.
Now, after this race I've realised that he is still the petulant spoilt little boy that he always has been.

And Horner and Marko have to take a lot of the credit for that.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Perez - "I was told to let him by and that I was going to get back the position. I don't know what the complications were on his side, no idea. Maybe you should ask him about it. Nothing to say really. After all I have done for him, it is a bit disappointing to be honest."

Two things:

1 That was promised by the team not by Verstappen. Hope we can appreciate the difference.
2 This does not mean that Verstappen was in front because he was left by. It was the result of a difference in pace.

I think a lot of people would have respected him for playing part of a team result, an helping his team-mate out. If Mercedes are a genuine threat in 2023, Max may need some of that assistance in return.

True, although in my opinion somebody more comfortable with a loose rear end would be more helpfull in the future.

People will give the same criticism to Sainz, and have done.

Well not on this forum.

Or does one think differently because of liking Max?

No idea, ask someone who likes him.

Yes - if they were given a compromised pit strategy to cover off another driver. It's about working together as a team for each other to benefit.

True.

I guess we'll see if there is no mention of this again in the future. I suspect (as F1 has a way of turning out) that this incident will come back in the future. If I had to predict - Verstappen will be in a close battle with a Mercedes at the next round and be asked to compromise his strategy to give Perez an advantage. We'll see then how he reacts.

Indeed, will he accept he was given an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth or will hold grudges? We'll see.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Two things:

1 That was promised by the team not by Verstappen. Hope we can appreciate the difference.

I see the difference, but is the fact that Verstappen didn't promise it a good enough reason for disobeying a specific team order?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And Horner and Marko have to take a lot of the credit for that.

Fair comment, I accept that too

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Two things:
1 That was promised by the team not by Verstappen. Hope we can appreciate the difference.
2 This does not mean that Verstappen was in front because he was left by. It was the result of a difference in pace.

If a driver receives the information from the team - he has to place trust in the knowledge that team 'know' he will get the place back.

If it is correct that Verstappen had already made his intentions known to the team, then the team should not have asked Perez to move aside.
If the team were not aware, they should now be ensuring that Max is fully aware of what was 'promised' to Perez, and at the very least I would expect some form of public apology to be made to Perez.

As it is - it appears that the team has both given false information to one of their drivers and allowed to other to disobey their instructions.

Yes, Verstappen had more pace - he's not the first or the last to have more pace and be allowed to attack a driver further ahead, with the knowledge that they will drop back if they are not successful. Max did not do that on this occasion. And you also have to ask why Perez had less pace - some would say that the pit strategy was part of this.

Originally Posted by Taxi645

True, although in my opinion somebody more comfortable with a loose rear end would be more helpfull in the future.

This reads like you are condoning future crashgate type actions?

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Well not on this forum.

There has been if you look for it, but there are two reasons why it is not as common:
1. Sainz has given less 'ammunition' to those who would criticise.
2. Sainz does not polarise opinion as much as the Horner/Marko/Verstappen camp at the moment.

Originally Posted by Taxi645

No idea, ask someone who likes him.

It's back to the polarising of opinion. It will lead to more vociferous responses.

[peebee2]

As a slight addition, Checo may have been asked to let Max by but Max was coming by anyway. And it certainly didn't look like Checo 'let him by.'

[bjohnsonsmith]

According to Motorsprt, this is Perez take.

Perez said he had “no idea” what reasons Verstappen was referring to, adding: “Maybe you should ask him about it.

“Nothing to say really. After all I’ve done for him, it's a bit disappointing to be honest. I’m really surprised.”


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...lace/10399565/

[chillibowl]

Max often laments on why he always seems to get the raw end of things and while he can rationalize it as an unfriendly media twisting his comments (his reasons not to take part in the Netflix shows interviews with SKY) but this was an opportunity to flip that script a bit.

Completely understandable to want to control your own narrative but to do that you have to also accept responsibility for the narrative you create for yourself.

Think Max is great, i’m a supporter, but this would have been an easy team request/order to follow that would have made publicly supporting him just a little bit easier!

[Born Racer]

He was happy to take the place from Checo, as he was when it benefitted him early in the season. I suspect he believes Pérez is truly a number 2.

As for the move on Hamilton, it was his fault. Could have backed out of it - not a total slam dunk idiotic move like in 2021, and probably something of a 'racing incident', but if I have to apportion blame, it's too him.

[S griffin]

When you think Checo had to give up a win at Barcelona when the season was still young, yet Max won’t give up a sixth place despite already being champion, it really shows how Max only thinks of himself. Of course you have to be a bit selfish to succeed in the sport, but there was really nothing to gain by ignoring team orders here. Great driver Max is, but Red Bull have spoiled him too much and really would probably mature somewhere else where he won’t be allowed to be bigger than the team

[Born Racer]

I think Verstappen has shown signs of maturity - signs, but he is not there yet. He was calm after the Hamilton thing (I can't remember what he said, but it was something like 'what's the point?', in terms of not complaining.

But for me, it's just a bit silly that he was happy to take the place but not to give it back. Or maybe Horner and his cronies were rubbish at giving the signal to him that it was a team order and asking him if he would definitely agree to give back the place. Perhaps they never communicated that to him or confirmed that before the move was made. In which place it was the people on the phone to him who are the culprits.

If you're going to have team orders, you're always going to have messy situations like this, though. Racing drivers are born and driven to compete with all racing drivers. So, we shouldn't be surprised when this occurs. I don't want to lynch Max or Red Bull. They look like silly billies, though.

Leclerc made the request with more class, although what did he say on the radio on the last lap when the team delivered the news that Sainz wouldn't be moving over for him? I missed what he said. Still, if Leclerc wants to finish second in the DRIVERS' championship, he may need to beat all the other drivers.

[Born Racer]

make contact after Safety Car restart at Interlagos
“It cost him the race win, for me it gave me five seconds. It wouldn’t have mattered anything for my race, because we were just way too slow. But it’s just a shame, I thought we could race quite well together, but clearly the intention was not there to race.”

Okay, I take that back. Verstappen is a fool.

[Akrapovic]

It's alright. Jos will punish him by leaving him at the petrol station like any well adjusted mentor/parent.

[Born Racer]

Great point! I'm no psychologist, but I sometimes wonder whether his weird upbringing impacted negatively on his sense of selflessness. The flipside of all this is he does seem weirdly placid and modest in interviews and not at all pumped up.

[Akrapovic]

Oh 100%. When you lose a kart race and your criminally violent father responds by committing an act of child neglect, you're bound to lose the sense of morality and selflessness to an extreme level.

You can see this with the Nelson Piquet situation too. We're all to be super open minded and it's all fine says Max. But Max says the RBR cheating allegations (which were true) are unacceptable and shouldn't be said. Racism, fine. Facts, not. Because it does not benefit him.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Oh 100%. When you lose a kart race and your criminally violent father responds by committing an act of child neglect, you're bound to lose the sense of morality and selflessness to an extreme level.

You can see this with the Nelson Piquet situation too. We're all to be super open minded and it's all fine says Max. But Max says the RBR cheating allegations (which were true) are unacceptable and shouldn't be said. Racism, fine. Facts, not. Because it does not benefit him.

I'm starting to suspect you don't like him.

[Akrapovic]

I don't like him. But given the environment he grew up in, a lot of his traits are explainable.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Red Bull and Verstappen deserve each other.

See that's the thing. Vettel had a very similar rep when he was at RB, and now he's (deservedly so IMO) the most loved driver on the grid. At Spa he always had the biggest cheer of everyone.

So does that mean if Max ever moved teams he could "rehabilitate" himself? I personally think he is who he is, but then again 9 years ago I would have said the same thing about Seb. Then again Seb didn't have a Jos figure in his life.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think a lot of people would have respected him for playing part of a team result, an helping his team-mate out. If Mercedes are a genuine threat in 2023, Max may need some of that assistance in return.

Mercedes were a genuine threat in 2021, and Checo was the reason why what happened in Abu Dhabi happened. Has Max forgotten that so quickly?

Had Checo not cost Lewis 6+ seconds, Lewis would have had a SC pit window over Max, he boxes for softs, he stays out in front and most likely is an 8-time champion. And Michael Masi still has a job in F1

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I'm starting to suspect you don't like him.

Show me on the doll where Red Bull hurt you

[Akrapovic]

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...ontent=Article

Red Bull statement is that Max was only informed to give the position back in the final corner and that he didn't have to do it.

This doesn't fit with the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf7j...l=G-ForceGamer