WEC Alpine Sportscar Discussion - Page 6

**FIRE** · 6 Oct 2021, 11:56 (Ref:4077175)

In LMDh class.

Steve McQ · 6 Oct 2021, 12:11 (Ref:4077180)

I can't see any reason for delaying the program til 2024 except :
- Oreca is committed with Acura and has no capacity to produce a second car (plus a LMP2) for 2023
- Alpine just wants to race another year with the Rebellion R13 and has to commit long term to get it granted by the ACO. But getting involved only in 2024 gives plenty of time to cancel quietly the LMDh program if anything goes wrong. AMR style if you see what I mean.

Coach Ep · 6 Oct 2021, 13:59 (Ref:4077206)

Fat chance but who knows they'll slap some Nissan stickers on it and go play in IMSA land!?

**joeb** · 6 Oct 2021, 19:48 (Ref:4077245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

I can't see any reason for delaying the program til 2024 except :
- Oreca is committed with Acura and has no capacity to produce a second car (plus a LMP2) for 2023
- Alpine just wants to race another year with the Rebellion R13 and has to commit long term to get it granted by the ACO. But getting involved only in 2024 gives plenty of time to cancel quietly the LMDh program if anything goes wrong. AMR style if you see what I mean.

I was wondering about the 2024 debut as well. Could be capacity at Oreca: maintaining current P2 cars, building lmdh and prepping new P2 cars.

Pandamasque · 6 Oct 2021, 19:54 (Ref:4077246)

I'm shocked Alpine going to miss the 100th anniversary Le Mans, especially since they're not even building their own ground up LMH car. Do they need almost 3 years to marry a chassis from a long standing partner, a spec hybrid system and some engine from a myriad of Renault-badged race engines currently racing all over the word?

I have a suspicion, ACO pressed Renault for a "yes!" so much and for so long that they just had to say it, but what they really mean is "we'll think about it, some day. In the meantime, let us milk some more cheap publicity from that blue R13, d'accord?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

I can't see any reason for delaying the program til 2024 except :
- Oreca is committed with Acura and has no capacity to produce a second car (plus a LMP2) for 2023

There's no new LMP2 in 2023. 2024 the earliest. So Oreca will have to build what, 4 cars max? Possibly as few as 2.

Tique · 6 Oct 2021, 20:18 (Ref:4077249)

A brand-new engine will be design and built by Renault Sport at Viry Chatillon. Such exercise will not happen overnight. I am a bit surprised by the comments. This news, in my opinion, is a brilliant news for sportscar racing. For the first time ever, we will have the 2 french car manufacturer competing together. Having one in LMH and the other in LMDh should also close the debate of the ACO giving an advantage to the LMH as Peugeot is in it. And looking on the eom going committing to endurance racing, it is just unbelievable looking on the states of the endurance races of the last few years...

broadrun96 · 6 Oct 2021, 21:43 (Ref:4077254)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

There's no new LMP2 in 2023. 2024 the earliest. So Oreca will have to build what, 4 cars max? Possibly as few as 2.

I think he was assuming teams may want/need additional LMP2 cars as well as the LMDh chassis needs for Acura.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

A brand-new engine will be design and built by Renault Sport at Viry Chatillon. Such exercise will not happen overnight. I am a bit surprised by the comments. This news, in my opinion, is a brilliant news for sportscar racing. For the first time ever, we will have the 2 french car manufacturer competing together. Having one in LMH and the other in LMDh should also close the debate of the ACO giving an advantage to the LMH as Peugeot is in it. And looking on the eom going committing to endurance racing, it is just unbelievable looking on the states of the endurance races of the last few years...

What are the engine regs for LMDH? I thought the plan was production(ish) things for DPI but then we get the MAZDAER thing that's only similar by name and 4 cylinders to the street engine. LMDH let ya build whatever and we'll restrict it with weight or a skinny straw as needed?

Tique · 7 Oct 2021, 07:49 (Ref:4077299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

What are the engine regs for LMDH? I thought the plan was production(ish) things for DPI but then we get the MAZDAER thing that's only similar by name and 4 cylinders to the street engine. LMDH let ya build whatever and we'll restrict it with weight or a skinny straw as needed?

Alpine has clearly stated that they will design and build an engine at Viry Chatillon, their facility for race engine. They have also said that ENstone, their F1 facility, will be used for an aero point of view and they will look for sinergies between F1 and WEC. I guess this is why it will take some times to have the car on the track.
Please find below some articles (in french) with all the parties involved

https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...-et-pour-4-ans
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...ve-son-essence
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...sur-la-planche
https://www.endurance-info.com/auto/...s-de-dimension

Steve McQ · 7 Oct 2021, 10:21 (Ref:4077320)

LMDH provides a winning platform to upcycle already existing engines such as all the old LMP1 usual suspects giving them an OEM badge. Nissan-Cosworth, AER, Gibson, Mecachrome and why not Judd powerplants should be in the mix in some way. It also gives way to production engines as used by Cadillac and Acura theses days.
At Renault, the Nissan GT-R GT3 powerplant already proved illsuited to LMP racing. Mecachrome is a friend company of Renault, but their LMP1 engine lacks development. The Cosworth-Nissan VRX30 from the Nismo GTR-LM could be an option, but not my favourite.
Alpine and Oreca already know by heart the Gibson product and they did not prove themselves to be risk prone on engine side in recent years. So my bet is on the GL458 with a Renault badge because Viry will have worked to integrate the hybrid system.

Tique · 7 Oct 2021, 19:21 (Ref:4077394)

From what I have heard, the Gibson GL458 is not the most efficient engine so evn if Oreca know it well, I will not bet on it. Regarding the VRX30, if it is the same one that has been used in IMSA with the Ligier DPI, this one is quite heavy and has given a lot of problem to the Ligier DPi. Knowing the knwonledge that Viry has developped with the V6 turbo, I will bet on an engine like that.

Rf1 Fan · 7 Oct 2021, 20:32 (Ref:4077401)

I bet Renault/Alpine will use the ICE in their LmdH as a testing bed for their 2026 ICE F1 engine.

2024 gives them plenty of time to develop an engine.

broadrun96 · 7 Oct 2021, 20:52 (Ref:4077402)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

From what I have heard, the Gibson GL458 is not the most efficient engine so evn if Oreca know it well, I will not bet on it. Regarding the VRX30, if it is the same one that has been used in IMSA with the Ligier DPI, this one is quite heavy and has given a lot of problem to the Ligier DPi. Knowing the knwonledge that Viry has developped with the V6 turbo, I will bet on an engine like that.

**** poor support from Nissan and budgetary reasons caused problems with the Nissan and Ligier. Never mind the supply chain of oops, sorry we didn't ship that from Nissan to Ed Brown.

It all just feels so much like they demand to have their LMP1 Rebellion allowed to race 2 more years and then nothing to try and steal a cheap win before the next gen cars come on strong.

chernaudi · 7 Oct 2021, 21:10 (Ref:4077405)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

From what I have heard, the Gibson GL458 is not the most efficient engine so evn if Oreca know it well, I will not bet on it. Regarding the VRX30, if it is the same one that has been used in IMSA with the Ligier DPI, this one is quite heavy and has given a lot of problem to the Ligier DPi. Knowing the knwonledge that Viry has developped with the V6 turbo, I will bet on an engine like that.

VRX30 is the engine that Cosworth helped Nisssan design for the GT-R LMP1. The Nissan DPI used the 3.8 V6 from the Nissan GT-R GT3 in a more powerful--and less durable--format.

greenmachinets040 · 8 Oct 2021, 09:01 (Ref:4077440)

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

**** poor support from Nissan and budgetary reasons caused problems with the Nissan and Ligier. Never mind the supply chain of oops, sorry we didn't ship that from Nissan to Ed Brown.

It all just feels so much like they demand to have their LMP1 Rebellion allowed to race 2 more years and then nothing to try and steal a cheap win before the next gen cars come on strong.

That is the POINT

Steve McQ · 8 Oct 2021, 09:38 (Ref:4077449)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

From what I have heard, the Gibson GL458 is not the most efficient engine so evn if Oreca know it well, I will not bet on it. Regarding the VRX30, if it is the same one that has been used in IMSA with the Ligier DPI, this one is quite heavy and has given a lot of problem to the Ligier DPi. Knowing the knwonledge that Viry has developped with the V6 turbo, I will bet on an engine like that.

Truth is, you don't need an efficient engine to race in LMDh. If it was, you would never hear rumors of a twinturbo Cayenne V8 powering the Porsche and Audi machines... Acura would not retain its HR35TT and Cadillac its downsized LT1, but they will.

Cost is the driver here. And that is why any F1 derived (or testbed) engine is absolutely out of the question, at least in LMDh (and probably also in LMH).

greenmachinets040 · 8 Oct 2021, 11:51 (Ref:4077456)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Truth is, you don't need an efficient engine to race in LMDh. If it was, you would never hear rumors of a twinturbo Cayenne V8 powering the Porsche and Audi machines... Acura would not retain its HR35TT and Cadillac its downsized LT1, but they will.

Cost is the driver here. And that is why any F1 derived (or testbed) engine is absolutely out of the question, at least in LMDh (and probably also in LMH).

It will be a real shame, that everything is BoP regulated, you can have "tractor" engine inside, you will be given a BoP, that you can fly like an airplane..

Tique · 8 Oct 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4077459)

Your tractor has to run en n 3:30 at Le Mans so it should be a nice one

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

broadrun96 · 8 Oct 2021, 12:15 (Ref:4077461)

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

It will be a real shame, that everything is BoP regulated, you can have "tractor" engine inside, you will be given a BoP, that you can fly like an airplane..

And it's a shame some have no idea what it takes to convert that engine for use AND what costs are involved for F1 based engines. Guess it's all wanting free stuff for your entertainment without regard for the company making it

Coach Ep · 8 Oct 2021, 13:52 (Ref:4077472)

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

It will be a real shame, that everything is BoP regulated, you can have "tractor" engine inside, you will be given a BoP, that you can fly like an airplane..

Sorta like the Viper Mk.I back in the 90s and nobody complained about that one!

broadrun96 · 8 Oct 2021, 16:40 (Ref:4077504)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Sorta like the Viper Mk.I back in the 90s and nobody complained about that one!

Shhh, don’t point out the obvious. They have an angry gimme gimme point to make

chernaudi · 15 Oct 2021, 17:07 (Ref:4078618)

SC365 are reporting that the ACO are at least looking at extending the A480's eligibility for the WEC and LM for at least another season.

**Adam43** · 15 Oct 2021, 17:55 (Ref:4078622)

Goodo.

S griffin · 16 Oct 2021, 20:20 (Ref:4078762)

Let’s see if they fulfill their plan

greenmachinets040 · 18 Oct 2021, 09:14 (Ref:4078936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let’s see if they fulfill their plan

Motorsport.com has infos, that for 2022 the Alpine has been given green light. It is uncertain, whether they can do anything about their fuel tank or not.

S griffin · 18 Oct 2021, 10:27 (Ref:4078944)

I can trust that site. It's great news, let's hope they can be competitive next year. Although as you say the fuel tank is still a concern

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