Put this engine into sportscar racing...NOW!

[veeten]

The more I look at the new Hemi, the more I say this...

www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html

give me the R&S Mk IIIc, with this engine in the bay, and you can rule the LMP 900 class, no doubts.

[Adam43]

It'll need a bit of development, but probably a good basis for decent endurance engine.

I'm not sure that the engine is good enough to enable the R&S to rule the 900 class!

[Tim Northcutt]

We're preaching from the same hymn book, veeten!!!!!

Whether this engien would drop into an R&S MkIIIc, or just buying one of the ORECA Dallaras and dropping this behind the drivers, this would be my engine of choice...

Now...will Daimler let someone get it and develop it for endurance racing?

[gttouring]

come on the dodge boys need to secretly develop it and showit when they are threw to the Germans, just like the ford guys did with the GT-originally it was primer black and the 3 prototype test mules were painted by the project team without the 'ok' from the Ford honchos- and good things have happened. So come on Dodge- make it an even 6 litres, raise the rev limit a bit and smooth smooth insides, get it in a prototype and go go go

[pirenzo]

That's a big engine.

I'd like to see you put that in a sleek, modern 900....

[429CJ]

No Riley&Scott, but the Ascari chassis with this engine sounds good.

[pitviper]

some people i've been talking to say that PVO is looking at making a V10 Hemi engine (perhaps 7.0 litres) and putting it in the new Viper coupe...

pit

[veeten]

pit, I've had that design (V10 Hemi) rolling around in my head for the last 3 years...

[Dauntless]

Hmmm, the article states that the new hemi is smaller than the 5.9L engine it replaces. The 5.9L is virtually identical in size to the 5.7L Chevy and the 5.8L Ford engines, so at least on paper, the new hemi should fit into any chassis designed to accommodate either of those two engines.

[veeten]

and when you add most racing apparatus, like a dry sump, intake/airbox designs, and remotely placed pumps & other things, then the profile is sufficient to fit within the chassis with minnimal changes.

If only Chrysler had this engine was around when ORECA had the Dallara chassis. Oh well...

[Dani Filth]

they could have it .. and it would blow .. too ..

[Simon S]

Am I missing something here?

It's only Hemi in name, not design....

a 2 valve pushrod is hardly cutting edge these days, the current 4.7 SOHC is already at a higher BHP/CI

Simon (S)

[Dani Filth]

The chrysler Oreca engines were also badged Mopar .. and fssssssssssss

[noise boy 2]

Originally posted by Simon S
Am I missing something here?

It's only Hemi in name, not design....

a 2 valve pushrod is hardly cutting edge these days, the current 4.7 SOHC is already at a higher BHP/CI

Simon (S)

Simon, the name hemi refers to the design of the combustion chamber, a hemisphere with a centrally located spark plug, which this engine has. The original 393 chrysler hemi was a pushrod engine, as was the 426 hemi of the musclecar heyday. Robert

[Lee Janotta]

The Ascari has won _nothing_, and the Dome's never had a podium under ACO rules (Le 24 or ALMS). The R&S is a proven winner, it just needs a team with the money to run it right with paddle-shift and a great engine.

And noise boy's absolutely right, Simon.

[Simon S]

Originally posted by noise boy 2
Simon, the name hemi refers to the design of the combustion chamber, a hemisphere with a centrally located spark plug, which this engine has. The original 393 chrysler hemi was a pushrod engine, as was the 426 hemi of the musclecar heyday. Robert

This I understand...

This new engine though does NOT have a HEMI head design though...if it did, it could never make emmissions (NO levels etc.)

[Dauntless]

Originally posted by Simon S This new engine though does NOT have a HEMI head design

True, Simon, but then again not even Mopar's public relations people claim that it's a "real" HEMI head. I think what excites some racers and fans is that it produces very good power from a small (for a pushrod) package and carries on the tradition of competitive, reasonably affordable stock-block engines from major manufacturers.

We all know that more modern designs can make more power per liter, but that's often besides the point.

[Tim Northcutt]

I would think that either a Dallara or an R&S would be a good fit for this engine, but the R&S might be a better fit becuase the Rileys would custom laser cut the chassis they built for it to fit it....that has become an excellent race chassis with their changes over the past year...

The big hurdle would be Chrysler buying into the project....

However, all you would need would be permission....and from there take it to a reputable MOPAR performance builder to do your race configuration...

My three (probably in this order):

NOTE: I'm aware that this engine is not raced in NASCAR due to their rules, but...

1. Roger Penske -- Although I believe that his NASCAR shops actually do their engines through Jasper Engines for Rusty Wallace and Ryan Newmann, Penske has exellent engine shops and there is no one more meticulous than the Penske Racing operation...he would build you a great race engine from this Hemi for the right price...

2. Evernham Racing -- the "Factory Dodge" team in NASCAR....although they ae fast, they have been getting poor fuel mileage...but that does not take away from the facts that they have a quality engine shop that is familiar with MOPAR products...

3. I would research who builds the best MOPAR Sprint Car engines (that is what powered the ORECA Dallara a few years ago)as my third choice....but it would be a clear thrid choice...

This engine would be my co-number-one choice if new power options would be available...

My other choice would be to have Yates do a 6.0 L build on the Ford DOHC 5.4 L V-8....

Bu this Chrysler engine really sounds like it has serious power potential....

[Andy Zarse]

a

[noise boy 2]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I would think that either a Dallara or an R&S would be a good fit for this engine, but the R&S might be a better fit becuase the Rileys would custom laser cut the chassis they built for it to fit it....that has become an excellent race chassis with their changes over the past year...

The big hurdle would be Chrysler buying into the project....

However, all you would need would be permission....and from there take it to a reputable MOPAR performance builder to do your race configuration...

My three (probably in this order):

NOTE: I'm aware that this engine is not raced in NASCAR due to their rules, but...

1. Roger Penske -- Although I believe that his NASCAR shops actually do their engines through Jasper Engines for Rusty Wallace and Ryan Newmann, Penske has exellent engine shops and there is no one more meticulous than the Penske Racing operation...he would build you a great race engine from this Hemi for the right price...

2. Evernham Racing -- the "Factory Dodge" team in NASCAR....although they ae fast, they have been getting poor fuel mileage...but that does not take away from the facts that they have a quality engine shop that is familiar with MOPAR products...

3. I would research who builds the best MOPAR Sprint Car engines (that is what powered the ORECA Dallara a few years ago)as my third choice....but it would be a clear thrid choice...

This engine would be my co-number-one choice if new power options would be available...

My other choice would be to have Yates do a 6.0 L build on the Ford DOHC 5.4 L V-8....

Bu this Chrysler engine really sounds like it has serious power potential....

The oreca dallara was powered by Kinsler built mopar 6.0l (the older 318-340-360 design). As I recall, they blew up at le mans that year. Robert

[Andy Zarse]

I simply cannot accept that this engine is anything other than a hopeless lump of agricultural iron. Or alloy where appropriate. And the comments about shoving it in a R&S IIIc and expecting it to dominate are frankly nonsensical.

I am an admirer of prototype racing, because it pushes the boundaries. If this is the state of the art, then I am a Dutchman. And I'm not! Where is the free thinking? Where is the imagination? Where is the engineering elegance to solve the technological challenges? Nowhere to be seen! If prototypes want to progress then I respectfully suggest it will not be by constantly reworking 1950s tachnology.

Hardly the cutting edge of technology, is it? It's just another identikit two valve pushrod V-something shoving out 60bhp per litre. Just what the world needs! The engineers who responsible for this should be taken outside and thrashed about the head with a Honda V-tech variable timing camshaft.

When will the Americans, super folk that they are, realise that there are plenty of substitutes for cubes.

[Tim Northcutt]

There was not much support from Chrysler on that project, if I remember correctly....but Veeten and/or LeeJanotta would have beeter recollection of that than I do...

I do know that it was a sprint car-based engine and you are correct concerning the roots from which that engine is derived...

But it did run fast until it did expire...they were in the top 5 for much of their run, if I remember corectly...

As we all know, it takes big $$$ or a lot of dyno and testing time to work the bugs out of a new engine project...

Look at the problems Judd initially faced with the new 5.0L version of their V-10, even though they had developed a pretty reliable package in the 4.0L version and the adding of 61 cu. in. of displacement -- on paper anyway -- shouldn't have caused the problems for Doran-Lista (as the team that ran that 5.0L last year) as it did cause in reality...

But just because a lower-$$$ sprint car engine blew up doesn't mean that this Hemi would be a grenade under the cowling...

[noise boy 2]

Originally posted by Andy Zarse
I simply cannot accept that this engine is anything other than a hopeless lump of agricultural iron. Or alloy where appropriate. And the comments about shoving it in a R&S IIIc and expecting it to dominate are frankly nonsensical.

I am an admirer of prototype racing, because it pushes the boundaries. If this is the state of the art, then I am a Dutchman. And I'm not! Where is the free thinking? Where is the imagination? Where is the engineering elegance to solve the technological challenges? Nowhere to be seen! If prototypes want to progress then I respectfully suggest it will not be by constantly reworking 1950s tachnology.

Hardly the cutting edge of technology, is it? It's just another identikit two valve pushrod V-something shoving out 60bhp per litre. Just what the world needs! The engineers who responsible for this should be taken outside and thrashed about the head with a Honda V-tech variable timing camshaft.

When will the Americans, super folk that they are, realise that there are plenty of substitutes for cubes.

Well for starters, it's more on the order of 100bhp per liter. Secondly, there is no substitute for displacement, big engines make big power at a lower internal stress level than a smaller engine. In the end there is a lot of life left in the pushrod v-8, ask the people at katech, or elan. Also the packaging is easier, the ohc designs necessitate a larger cylinder head, which makes stuffing it into a sleek body difficult. A pushrod motor is actually physically smaller for the same displacement. Robert

[Andy Zarse]

Not 100bhp per litre? My God!! So how come Honda can get 240bhp out of a two litre normally aspirated road car engine with total reliability. They have made over a million Vtec engines over a ten year period, with a three year guarantee. Do you know how many warranty claims they have had on the Vtec mechanism in that time? None. I'm not really in the Honda fan club, but you must admit those guys do know about engines. All I am saying is if you use the correct materials, then higher stresses are not a problem.

When the blinkers are removed, you will see that two valve pushrod is a dead end street. When was the last time a pushrod motor won Le Mans? Late fifties or early sixties? Shelby? Generations ago anyway. If the winning manufacturers have somehow managed to shoehorn these "massive" OHC engines into their chassis and won, then I think you have some way to go to prove your argument.

The comment on no sub for cubes is endemic of a "no original thought" attitude. Sorry if you think I'm being rude, it's just that the facts don't bear out your argument. And the R&S, I think, has only won in competitive company by the misfortune of others.

[veeten]

by the exact same way that the McLaren F1 GTR's BMW 6L V12 engine is done; higher engine speeds. Notice that the S2000's 2L engine has a 9000+ rpm rev range/lightweight flywheel-clutch assembly, combined with the chassis' all-up weight allows the car to respond equally to a Porsche Boxster or a BMW Z4.

AS for OHC/DOHC engines, they've been around equally, if not longer, as much time. No matter the manufacturer, remove the cam covers, it's all the same. So, there's nothing new under the sun there either. Basically, the only things that have are electronic engine systems for intake/fuel injection and drivetrain.

btw, when was the last time Honda won LeMans anyway...