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Old 12 May 2021, 21:42 (Ref:4051325)   #26
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To be fair Bottas has done well to come back mentally after being at a really low ebb at the end of 2018. 2019-20 showed what he could do when his confidence is high, but unfortunately it’s still not enough to beat Lewis.
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Old 13 May 2021, 11:11 (Ref:4051442)   #27
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Originally Posted by BTCC frog View Post
....and there will be a time when Bottas becomes better than Hamilton. It is Bottas' job to keep hold of that Mercedes drive until that happens, so that he can capitalise when it does and beat the challenge of Verstappen and Leclerc. Luck needs to be on his side as well, as the Mercedes still needs to be the fastest car when that happens. The other possible scenario is, of course, that Hamilton retires and Bottas is up against Russell for the championship, and I think Bottas would beat Russell over a full season.
Do you really, honestly, believe this? It goes without saying that I don't. I think there is zero chance of Bottas still being at Mercedes and effectively becoming the team leader at whatever point (probably a few years away yet) that Hamilton decides to retire or demonstrates the weaknesses that we've seen from Vettel (and others over the years). As to Bottas v Russell, that's almost entirely an unknown. But a hungry young driver, desperate for success against a competent #2 (as I personally see Bottas), who knows. I doubt very much that Bottas will still be at Mercedes as and when the possibility of Russell joining the team arises.
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Old 13 May 2021, 11:30 (Ref:4051450)   #28
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But at some point, Lewis Hamilton's skills are going to start to decline. No driver remains at their best forever, as we see with Vettel and Alonso now, for example, and there will be a time when Bottas becomes better than Hamilton.
I'm just going to break this down a bit - and explain why I think it is not naturally the case.

Firstly - it is true that with age, a decline in ability is to be expected. But - every driver will experience this at a different point.

You use Vettel as an example, in that he is not as good as he once was. Vettel is currently 33yrs old, whereas Hamilton is 36. On paper, it appears that Vettel may have dropped from his peak around 2018 - when he was younger than Bottas is now.

In summary - Bottas is too close to Hamilton in age for it to be certain that he will one day be able to outperform him.
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Old 13 May 2021, 11:42 (Ref:4051454)   #29
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Absolutely agree it's a multi-dimensional problem. How the team expects to deploy (i.e. strategy) the two drivers is one as you say. Are they allowed to race, or does one support the other. Your comment on being #2 in the best team just allows you to fully measure yourself as to the gap between you and a WDC is perfect. And I think that is the logic many #2 drivers use. They are there to beat the #1 and it's up to them to close the gap. If the team allows that to happen! Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they do and #2 is not able to close the gap either!

Bottas for example. On a good day, he can beat Hamilton. But on most days Hamilton beats Bottas and usually it's not close. Hamilton has a level of performance consistency that others wish they had. And when down, he is able to extract himself out of a hole.

Richard
I really think that Bottas is happy where he is at, he does not seem to take a great deal of strain for sub par performances and continues to be re-signed as a support driver for Lewis. His feed back with car set up must be valuable and give Lewis the data he is looking for. As an athlete though I believe Bottas lacks the competitive edge and desperation to raise his game like Rosberg did. This desperation is what sets great sportsmen from the mediocre.

Bottas' performances seem to lift just prior to signing a new contract and then drop off once he has a contract in his pocket. May be mistaken here, but it is certainly my impression, and it is a attribute I loath in professional sportsmen.

Russell must have come as a huge surprise to Bottas, and imo should clearly have the Mercedes drive and hang the consequences, it would also give Lewis the opportunity to prove his greatness. (Good for the fans anyway.)
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Old 14 May 2021, 00:53 (Ref:4051563)   #30
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Nup Personally, I'd say his inspiration/passion is to emulate his dad.

I'd presume he wouldn't have cared otherwise.

I've never heard any words from Rosberg that demonstrate a desire to learn his craft further, exceed expectations, and be the best. Just get over the hump of winning the championship and take it from there.

Hence, the type of commentary you get from him.
As well as crmalcolm's shared article, I'd suggest you give his Beyond the Grid podcast episode a listen. Very insightful.
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Old 14 May 2021, 00:57 (Ref:4051564)   #31
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I respect Rosberg a lot for being honest. Admitting that he couldn’t beat Lewis on talent alone and admitting that he couldn’t do a season like 2016 again. He knew that he to go that extra mile and no doubt it took a lot out of him and he no doubt felt F1 wouldn’t be enjoyable if he did that every year. And he could retire happy knowing that all that extra work paid off with the title
And yet his incredible efforts, work rate and on-track performances still don't get the credit they deserve by many - "Rosberg only won the title because of Malaysia"; conveniently forgetting Rosberg won the first four races, and the final four races drove to calculated 2nd places (under immense pressure, especially in Abu Dhabi) knowing that's all he needed.
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Old 14 May 2021, 09:36 (Ref:4051607)   #32
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And yet his incredible efforts, work rate and on-track performances still don't get the credit they deserve by many - "Rosberg only won the title because of Malaysia"; conveniently forgetting Rosberg won the first four races, and the final four races drove to calculated 2nd places (under immense pressure, especially in Abu Dhabi) knowing that's all he needed.

Exactly, he may have benefited from some bad luck from Hamilton, but he also made the most of the opportunity presented to him.
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Old 14 May 2021, 10:07 (Ref:4051611)   #33
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I can remember Rosberg saying that he knew how to beat Hamilton and he did and it is reasonable to assume he did not think he either could either do it again or it was worth the supreme effort involved. Around that time the Rosbergs became parents and that would have been a factor as well.
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Rosberg: "There was a time when my only mission in life was to win the championship. Now that it’s done, I can make more time for the other passions."

"I tried to perfect everything. I remember, once I decided to stop cycling to lose one kilogramme of leg weight. One kilo of body weight represents four hundredths of a second per lap. At Suzuka, for the Japanese Grand Prix, I was on pole by three hundredths. I got the win, Lewis messed up, and I had my crucial championship lead back. It’s all in the details in the end.”

"For as long as I can remember, I have been pursuing this one goal: to become World Champion. This was my ultimate dream as a child. There was nothing higher I could achieve. To succeed in sports, you need to be willing to make sacrifices. Everything else has to take a backseat"

"I’d miss out due to training or something. At that level it’s all about total commitment. This mindset enabled me not only to achieve my goals, but has heightened my enjoyment of them."
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Old 15 May 2021, 23:43 (Ref:4051852)   #34
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Yeah, Rosberg did it right for him. He accomplished what he set out to, and instead of sacrificing family for that grind again, he retired and enjoys his family.

I think it matters who the number one on the team is. If it's max, I want no part of being on that team. If its moving to mercedes now, I would. Reason being age. If Russell goes to mercedes next year, he can be number 2 for a few years and wait for hamilton to retire. Then he inherits the number 1 seat. If you go to red bull now, max is the focal point basically your entire career.

On the flip side, if you're in your 30s, and haven't had a chance in a top team, or only have a small window left to get that opportunity again, you take the number 2 role, like perez or Ricciardo now. Back when ricciardi was at redbull, he was too young to sit behind max as a number 2, so had to try being a number 1 on a lesser team. Bottas was still too young when his opportunity came, as was hamilton, for it to work for him in a big team at that time. Had hamilton been a few years older, or he a few years younger and his opportunity come up a few years later so the age gap was more significant, he would be in a great spot. As it is, when Hamilton retires, bottas will be too old, and have too long a track record as a number 2 to get top billing.

For someone like russell, if he had a choice of top driver for mclaren or number 2 for Mercedes, take the mercedes ride, and prove yourself worthy of being built around when you're in your mid to late 20s and hamilton retires. It's why sainz is in a lose lose spot with leclerc. They're too close in age. If ferrari ever gets competitive again, you're either ruffling feathers taking the fight to the golden child leclerc, or you're stuck as number 2, with no chance of a payoff at the end of the run of the number 1.
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Old 19 Jun 2021, 03:55 (Ref:4057095)   #35
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Furthermore, I believe that Irvine was quite happy accepting his No.2 status to Schumacher given the very considerable pay-packet that he received from Ferrari. It helped him indulge in all the trappings that he could wish for.
I remember him saying that he preferred to be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small pond.

Having said that, he did acknowledge that being Schumacher's team-mate was like getting hit over the head with a cricket bat every few weeks.
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Old 19 Jun 2021, 07:35 (Ref:4057110)   #36
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I remember him saying that he preferred to be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small pond.

Having said that, he did acknowledge that being Schumacher's team-mate was like getting hit over the head with a cricket bat every few weeks.

Yup, that is true. But the money made it all better pretty quickly between races!
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Old 19 Jun 2021, 08:51 (Ref:4057114)   #37
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Indeed, Mike. It certainly paid for new bandages and more vodka.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 02:55 (Ref:4057259)   #38
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And almost a WDC
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 10:49 (Ref:4057298)   #39
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I think the big issue over in the UK is because Nico's rival was Hamilton and he did have bad luck

Nico did pretty much the same as his Dad, who quit when he was still at the peak of his powers after one world title, however I think Keke was acknowledged as perhaps the fastest guy out there for a few years, Nico maybe never had that moniker.

But I respect him enormously, he basically gave up his entire family, life, existence to beat Lewis, a man with more talent, but he did it and then realised he had NO desire to do it again, mature, responsible, thoughtful and gets for me far more recognition for doing so than trolling around for years on end winning endless titles in the best car and being a petulant little brat with a chip on his shoulder and a very odd lifestyle.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 11:02 (Ref:4057300)   #40
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the big issue over in the UK
[...]
trolling around for years on end winning endless titles in the best car and being a petulant little brat with a chip on his shoulder and a very odd lifestyle.
The issue is over in the UK?
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 11:09 (Ref:4057302)   #41
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I think the big issue over in the UK is because Nico's rival was Hamilton and he did have bad luck

Nico did pretty much the same as his Dad, who quit when he was still at the peak of his powers after one world title, however I think Keke was acknowledged as perhaps the fastest guy out there for a few years, Nico maybe never had that moniker.

But I respect him enormously, he basically gave up his entire family, life, existence to beat Lewis, a man with more talent, but he did it and then realised he had NO desire to do it again, mature, responsible, thoughtful and gets for me far more recognition for doing so than trolling around for years on end winning endless titles in the best car and being a petulant little brat with a chip on his shoulder and a very odd lifestyle.
I've read this several times and it becomes that little bit more oxymoronic every time I do.....
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 12:05 (Ref:4057313)   #42
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If ferrari ever gets competitive again, you're either ruffling feathers taking the fight to the golden child leclerc, or you're stuck as number 2, with no chance of a payoff at the end of the run of the number 1.
I don't think Ferrari are as biased as you think. Ferrari were happy to have Massa and Raikkonen as equal number ones for example.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 13:02 (Ref:4057321)   #43
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...I...a m...trolling...
Sounds about right.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 15:57 (Ref:4057406)   #44
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Petulant little brat. Other than you can use that to describe pretty much any F1 driver if you so desire I really don’t see it.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 19:54 (Ref:4057484)   #45
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The brat trolled round nicely today but was beaten on this occasion. He must have forgotten to have chips for lunch......
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 20:00 (Ref:4057488)   #46
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And another brat won so presumably had chips.
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