Modify the Hungaroring

[August]

This article implies Hungaroring may be modified. What are your ideas?

Here's my quick edit staying between roads around the track:



Made very much only overtaking spots in mind. The flat-out section from T3 would be about 1km long. That turn in the middle of the straight wouldn't require too much downforce so that the car behind would be in a disadvantage, yet maybe a car with worse tyres might be in trouble there. And after cars have had different lines (either to overtake or to defend) in that hairpin, there's another overtaking spot at the next quite long straight. Then I retained some of the nicest middle sector corners before a straight that ends up in a uphill braking zone. And the lap ends with a chicane that has a fast exit, what I think to be better for overtaking on the pit straight than the current hairpin.

And the distance is 4.6 km.

[bio]

Well, it would certainly provide some extra overtaking spots - and as I know, one of the prime reasons for the track modificatin will be giving at least one more overtakingspots.

However... this layout makes Hungaroring look like a street circuit - and I'm not a real fan of street circuit layouts

bio

[Alwaysfirst]

Yes to more overtaking, but no to ruining the track. The Hungaroring is very popular amongst the drivers as it provides a good & physical challenge, so I think the real challenge is to retain the nature of the circuit whilst creating more overtaking. I'll give it a go...

[scottmartinordeal]

My attempt at polishing a turd

[Sodemo]

I have long had ideas about improving the Hungaroring. If I have time I will post my own "version" of the track.

[SpeedingTortoise]

My attempt at this. Tried to keep as much of the original track as possible. 2.91mi/4.69km

[Tathrim]

May seem insane that I've done this, but the main issue with the track is there are no overtaking spots on the lap after T5 until you get to T13 (assuming 15 corners)

I've introduced another couple of dog legs to improve the existing options of overtaking, and creating a new one. Yes, that means I cut in to the forest and lose a bit of the flow, but this isn't likely as the real design.

[Alwaysfirst]

The problem with that last one is that it doesn't really create any more overtaking oppertunities. The runs between the hairpins are just too short. Adding hairpins doesn't automatically equal overtaking - Jarama has more tight, twisty turns than almost any other circuit of a comparable size & yet the racing there was almost always awful!

Here's my go:



I've extended the run to T1 which in itself then lengthens the run to T2. The next couple of corners are the same before a new fast double left-right combo with a nice long sweeper. This greatly lengthens the run into the chicane creating an overtaking oppertunity without having to loose one of the faster corners on the circuit. After the chicane the esses are the same until the final one where the track veers of to the left of the current layout, through a fast easy sweeper into a wide hairpin. A couple of open kinks lead back to the current penultimate corner, now also an overtaking oppertunity due to the longer run into it. The end of the lap stays the same.

I've tried to bear in mind that while many of us hate the track (due to no overtaking) the drivers mostly love it as it provides a good challenge, especially maintaining a fast flow through the esses section, so to remove that would be to ruin the track IMO. I have created 4 more overtaking oppertunities than currently exist (& made overtaking more likely in the 1 existing one) without changing the circuit that much. All of those points have had the track widened by quite a bit as well just to help! Hope you like it!

[bio]

Originally Posted by Alwaysfirst

I'm afraid it's better than how it'll finally be modified - if it will at all...

bio

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Alwaysfirst

The problem with that last one is that it doesn't really create any more overtaking oppertunities. The runs between the hairpins are just too short. Adding hairpins doesn't automatically equal overtaking - Jarama has more tight, twisty turns than almost any other circuit of a comparable size & yet the racing there was almost always awful!

Here's my go:



I've extended the run to T1 which in itself then lengthens the run to T2. The next couple of corners are the same before a new fast double left-right combo with a nice long sweeper. This greatly lengthens the run into the chicane creating an overtaking oppertunity without having to loose one of the faster corners on the circuit. After the chicane the esses are the same until the final one where the track veers of to the left of the current layout, through a fast easy sweeper into a wide hairpin. A couple of open kinks lead back to the current penultimate corner, now also an overtaking oppertunity due to the longer run into it. The end of the lap stays the same.

I've tried to bear in mind that while many of us hate the track (due to no overtaking) the drivers mostly love it as it provides a good challenge, especially maintaining a fast flow through the esses section, so to remove that would be to ruin the track IMO. I have created 4 more overtaking oppertunities than currently exist (& made overtaking more likely in the 1 existing one) without changing the circuit that much. All of those points have had the track widened by quite a bit as well just to help! Hope you like it!

Pure brilliance. T5-8 would be mental.

[bio]

Here's the take of a Hungarian WTCC-driver, Gábor Wéber (apparently doodled quickly on a leaflet):



He also provided some explanation:

"There aren't many possibilities because of the topology and the lack of the usable land. I would definitely not touch the section after the chicane, because it's difficult and tests the drivers' skills. It's one of the most characteristic sections of the track - and also, getting rid of it would shorten the track considerably. The inside of the track could be used, but that would mean cutting down a lot of trees which would raise environmental concerns and wouldn't gain too much extra space. The track could aim the Mansell after T2 sooner - but the Mansell isn't an overtaking point in the present layout. But it's another trademark section of Hungaroring, it would be a pity to get rid of it altogether."

Gr0

[bio]

Originally Posted by bio

He also provided some explanation:

"There aren't many possibilities because of the topology and the lack of the usable land. I would definitely not touch the section after the chicane, because it's difficult and tests the drivers' skills. It's one of the most characteristic sections of the track - and also, getting rid of it would shorten the track considerably. The inside of the track could be used, but that would mean cutting down a lot of trees which would raise environmental concerns and wouldn't gain too much extra space. The track could aim the Mansell after T2 sooner - but the Mansell isn't an overtaking point in the present layout. But it's another trademark section of Hungaroring, it would be a pity to get rid of it altogether."

... he then goes on:

"Another interesting section is the section after Mansell, left of the track's present layout, where the drive-in movie is. That seems to be a good place for the new section. I would make the track turn back after the Mansell, with a corner complex or a short straigh that would either lead to a hairpin or the kind of turn leading to the back straight in Sepang. The important thing is that it should be followed by a right turn that can be negotiated in several ways. That would lead the trackline back to the present layout.

The second, longer version could feature a long right sweeper with a faster in- and slower out-section - or a long esses-type section.

The new section would lead back to the original trackline at the same spot the first, shorter version would, but now it would be the extrra overtaking point Ecclestone wants. the new sections would also make the chicane an overtaking spot."

bio

[bio]

According to rumours, Herr Tilke will be involved in the modification of the trackline. Also, Ecclestone is said to intend to involve some of the drivers (Vettel, Schumacher and Alonso were named).

bio

[Yannick]

I don't think there is any need in fixing the current configuration of Hungaroring since it has provided some quite exciting races so far. The recent version has corrected practically all the flaws of the 1980s era original circuit design. The dogleg after Turn 3 is gone since the late 80s, the main straight has been lengthened towards Turn 1 and the section from Turn 12 to Turn 13 has been fixed. That's about all which can be done to enable a better flow to the circuit without changing its character.

Of course, it is exactly this character which has caused Hungaroring's bad reputation in the first place. But that was when the ugly dogleg after Turn 3 was still in place.

[bio]

Originally Posted by Yannick

I don't think there is any need in fixing the current configuration of Hungaroring since it has provided some quite exciting races so far. The recent version has corrected practically all the flaws of the 1980s era original circuit design. The dogleg after Turn 3 is gone since the late 80s, the main straight has been lengthened towards Turn 1 and the section from Turn 12 to Turn 13 has been fixed. That's about all which can be done to enable a better flow to the circuit without changing its character.

Of course, it is exactly this character which has caused Hungaroring's bad reputation in the first place. But that was when the ugly dogleg after Turn 3 was still in place.

Well, too late - the modification seems to be a fact now. It's only the how that's the question.

bio

[bio]

(Probably bad) news: the modification of Hungaroring has reportedly been called off.

Yannick, how did you pull this off?

bio

[ECW Dan Selby]

haha I wondered why this topic had come back!


Interesting - I'd never seen those notes you posted on the 1st page, bio.

Would have loved to have seen the proposals.

Selby

[bio]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

haha I wondered why this topic had come back!


Interesting - I'd never seen those notes you posted on the 1st page, bio.

Would have loved to have seen the proposals.

Selby

Yeah... the worst part is that they say the plans are ready, but there's no money to implement them this year - maybe next year (I bet you it's gonna be the same then, though...).

So, now it seems they have the new trackline, but we won't get to know for at least another year...

bio

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by bio

(Probably bad) news: the modification of Hungaroring has reportedly been called off.

Yannick, how did you pull this off?

bio

Well ... I did not do anything. And now, they are not doing anything. The similarity is obvious ;-)

Then again, why should the race organizers waste money on changing the track any further, when they are very well aware what such a change did to the finances of tracks like Hockenheim and the New Nürburgring. And even competition from a possible Red Bull sponsored Austrian GP would not take away too many spectators as the race at the Red Bull Ring would certainly alternate with Hockenheim (in place of the Nürburgring which, living rather locally to, I see as being rather likely of having its final run in F1 this year). And the Russian GP at Sotchi is too far away to be any kind of competition for the Hungaroring anyway.

So I guess keeping the plans in the drawer is a case of "never change a winning team". After all, the Hungarian GP is a staple of the series these days, with more tradition to it than most of the other events on the calendar.

[bio]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Then again, why should the race organizers waste money on changing the track any further, when they are very well aware what such a change did to the finances of tracks like Hockenheim and the New Nürburgring. And even competition from a possible Red Bull sponsored Austrian GP would not take away too many spectators as the race at the Red Bull Ring would certainly alternate with Hockenheim (in place of the Nürburgring which, living rather locally to, I see as being rather likely of having its final run in F1 this year). And the Russian GP at Sotchi is too far away to be any kind of competition for the Hungaroring anyway.

So I guess keeping the plans in the drawer is a case of "never change a winning team". After all, the Hungarian GP is a staple of the series these days, with more tradition to it than most of the other events on the calendar.

IMHO the case is much, much simpler: there's simply no money. The financial situation here in Hungary isn't the brightest at the moment (we've got the worst government in the World at the moment if you ask me - but let's not talk politics here...), so they decided that whatever money they can get they'll spend on fixing the problems the existing track has. they say there are quite a few...

bio

[kartincolin]

As long as it manages to retain the undulation and original nature of the circuit, those modifications could be beneficial to overtaking and the spectacle.

[bio]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

As long as it manages to retain the undulation and original nature of the circuit, those modifications could be beneficial to overtaking and the spectacle.

That's what the primary goal is. More overtaking.

bio