Escort (racer?), Reg no DKP 191T

[Gloves]

Checking through some of my old pictures ,I came across this. Taken at Brands Hatch around 1983-1985 it shows a Mk2 Escort with a what looks like a BDT in it , but has the registration number of the famous Ari Vatenan 'black Escort'. Anyone know anything about this car and if the number is genuine?

[John Turner]

What, no takers? Surely someone must know. Looks a smart outfit for the period.

[chunterer]

Agreed John, I thought a combo of the reg number, period and quality images makes for a good thread question!

There was a Richard Williamson, I think, who raced a Mk2 Escort in Thundersaloons in mid-late 80's. Might be a bit off beam on the name or variations on it!!! Could this be a candidate?

[VIVA GT]

I must agree that this looks like a very special Escort, plus the support vehicle looks quite trick too, this does look like a professional setup, surely someone remembers it?

[Farbrooke]

The suport vehicle looks in the style of an ex ford works service barge where as the colour scheme looks very simular to that of RED or MCD

[morninggents]

Looking at the trees and the weather it looks like winter. Could it be a rallycross car?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Looking at the trees and the weather it looks like winter. Could it be a rallycross car?

Following on from the above comment there looks to be two names on the door so could it be a straight rally car?

[Gloves]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Looking at the trees and the weather it looks like winter. Could it be a rallycross car?

For sure ,it was not a rallycross meeting.. some of the other shots I have taken at the same time show a Mk1 Capri RS3100 with the GAA engine so must be Thunder Saloons or similar. Just can't remember as a long time ago

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Gloves

For sure ,it was not a rallycross meeting.. some of the other shots I have taken at the same time show a Mk1 Capri RS3100 with the GAA engine so must be Thunder Saloons or similar. Just can't remember as a long time ago

Yes, I agree the car looks 'racey' as opposed to an off track model. The RS3100 was probably Vince Woodman's if it was 1985 and a Thunderloon meeting?

Have you got the other pics up anywhere, might help us with process of elimination.

[VIVA GT]

Could it just have been a general test day as opposed to a race meeting? If so the Escort could have been a rally car (one hell of a tidy looking one at that), that was just being given a run there? Or maybe being set up for a tarmac rally? Or, has Brands ever been used for single venue rallying? (Plus, the car does apparently bear the registration of a very famous rally car...). You see, I think it is a rally car.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

You see, I think it is a rally car.

So do I. The two names on the door and the support vehicle are more indicators of a rally car rather than a racing saloon.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

So do I. The two names on the door and the support vehicle are more indicators of a rally car rather than a racing saloon.

Having checked back through my race programmes I have two things to report:

1) In the period 1983 to 1986 inclusive there were no Escorts driven by anyone called Williamson running in Special saloons/Thundersaloons.
2) Thundersaloons was started in 1985.

However it does look very similar to the John Brindley Escort campaigned in Thundersaloons in 1985.

Could the photo be from later than the years specified?

[Gloves]

This may help to narrow the year down a little. 3 pictures from the same meeting... Its not a track day or a rally or rallycross.

[Alex E]

Looks like Bill Griffins BMW so must be mod saloons, not Thundersaloons. Alex

[morninggents]

Judging by the Lotus Cortina probably an early Classic Saloon Car Club pre-65 race. I think that series started in 1983.

Looks early season though.

[redshoes]

The transporter in the background of the last pic I assume belongs to John Cleland. I think I can just make out the top of an Opel Monza. I believe he was still doing Prod Saloons in 84/85.

Are these on Flickr in higher res? Might be able to make out some more details if they are.

[chunterer]

That might well have been the first ever Thundersaloon meeting in March 1985? Brands Hatch in spring, judging by the weather and the lack of leaves on the trees.

That is definitely Woodman's Capri, and the MK3 Capri parked in the awning could be Terry Nicholls' car?

Could the Griffin 323 have won its class in the Thunderloons race, or were Modsaloons racing as well? As redshoes has pointed out by the Cleland reference, prodsaloons must've been there too.

[KA]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Could it just have been a general test day as opposed to a race meeting? If so the Escort could have been a rally car (one hell of a tidy looking one at that), that was just being given a run there? Or maybe being set up for a tarmac rally? Or, has Brands ever been used for single venue rallying? (Plus, the car does apparently bear the registration of a very famous rally car...). You see, I think it is a rally car.

Probably a bit off-topic now, but yes, at least a couple of times around 1990/91- they were early season (late January?) I think the events were run by one of the Essex clubs, and they used various configurations of the circuit, rallycross track etc.

[MikeM]

Just a thought but around this time Oulton Park ran a race series for rally cars. I cannot remember any real details except that George Cook won at least one championship. Given Brands involvement in Oulton, could they have run a similar series?

[chunterer]

Ah yes, the rally-race series? Wasn't there a few rather dubious 'rally cars' in that as well?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ah yes, the rally-race series? Wasn't there a few rather dubious 'rally cars' in that as well?

Yes, I remember watching a round of that at Mallory Park. I can't remember when however, but there was quite a cross-section of vehicles entered. The thing that really stuck in my mind at the time was, although it was damp, when some of the cars went off the track at the Lake Esses (where I was watching) instead of crashing into the armco like 'racing drivers', they hardly batted an eyelid, and got back onto the black stuff when they wanted to!

[chunterer]

excellent

A case of clip the edge of a kerb, barrel roll, get out and push the car back upright and continue, that sort of thing?

[VIVA GT]

That type of thing, exactly.
The racers attitude always appeared to be "I'm on wet grass, it is compulsory that I have an accident as soon as possible" (for example, Nigel Mansell BTCC Mondeo at Donington). For the rally guys, it was just that the colour of the race track had changed from black to green...

[MG Rover Sport]

I was going to say mid 1980s as the Metro Challenge car behind the BMW looks like it is badged as an MG. Also isn''t that John Cleland's transporter behind the Capri, ie it states 'Racing with Clelands of Peeble' on the side and there is an Opel Monza under the awning.

EDIT : Sorry just read Page 2 of this topic and have duplicated comments of others - feel such a **** now!

[Gloves]

Just found the answer to my own question here....
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=84741
It is the real thing and the year was 1985 and it was Thunder saloons. There is a comprehensive reply from the owner at the time and makes good reading. Some more good pictures too..
thanks everyone for your replies