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Old 22 Oct 2021, 15:44 (Ref:4079467)   #5761
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
I can't disagree with Alonso at all. He's spot on when he says:

''Motorsport is much more than Formula 1, even if inside this bubble some people feel this is the top-top-top — which is probably the top, but there are other super categories.”

After all he has raced in F1, IndyCar and WEC.

However, I don't think that is just the issue with awarding Super License points. I think the issue may also arise because IndyCar does not come under the auspices of the FIA.

ACCUS, the Automobile Competition Committee for the United States, is an umbrella organization of the various racing sanctioning bodies in the United States, which includes IndyCar, IMSA and NASCAR. ACCUS is the official liaison of those sanctioning bodies to the FIA. Maybe IndyCar needs closer affiliation with the FIA?
I was thinking the same when reading.
You could ask the question - why should the FIA award recognition to any non-FIA series? To do so would de-incentivise entrants to their own series'
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Old 23 Oct 2021, 02:13 (Ref:4079515)   #5762
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I was thinking the same when reading.
You could ask the question - why should the FIA award recognition to any non-FIA series? To do so would de-incentivise entrants to their own series'

Perhaps because drivers moving between series would be good for spectator interest in motor racing? Mansell to CART, Andrettis to F1, Rosberg, Rahal, Villeneuve from Atlantic to F1, Rossi and Grosjean from F1 to Indycar: I think those were all good for racing in general.

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Old 23 Oct 2021, 05:08 (Ref:4079524)   #5763
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Perhaps because drivers moving between series would be good for spectator interest in motor racing? Mansell to CART, Andrettis to F1, Rosberg, Rahal, Villeneuve from Atlantic to F1, Rossi and Grosjean from F1 to Indycar: I think those were all good for racing in general.
Not forgetting Jacques' move. That was one of the biggest stories in the history of motor racing.
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Old 23 Oct 2021, 12:46 (Ref:4079555)   #5764
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Not forgetting Jacques' move. That was one of the biggest stories in the history of motor racing.
Or JPM for that matter. True he had already won the FIA F3000 when he went over to America prior to his F1 adventure, but it no doubt made him a better driver going over there
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Old 26 Oct 2021, 14:07 (Ref:4080163)   #5765
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RH-R tests with ECR


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Old 26 Oct 2021, 17:19 (Ref:4080190)   #5766
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Last weekend IMS hosted the first autonomous race car competition in the 112 year history of the track.

https://www.indianapolismotorspeedwa...Sz_FSAUfW749os
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Old 27 Oct 2021, 18:26 (Ref:4080307)   #5767
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Or JPM for that matter. True he had already won the FIA F3000 when he went over to America prior to his F1 adventure, but it no doubt made him a better driver going over there

Very good suggestion!

Montoya and JV contributed hugely to both series.
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Old 27 Oct 2021, 19:31 (Ref:4080327)   #5768
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Vandoorne to test with SPAM, as they continue to evaluate all options regarding a three car team in 2023.

https://racer.com/2021/10/26/vandoor...-indycar-test/
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 03:36 (Ref:4080356)   #5769
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F1 is the top level, but it's not comprehensively the top level. There are certain traits that make it no1. But the weakness from the upper hierarchy of F1/FIA coveting F1 as no1 like it's some precious delicate object that others can't get near is a monumental weakness and undermines them. Snobbery to the point of ridiculousness.

Alonso's comments are weird to me because I thought they were common knowledge.

Colton Herta specifically has done more than enough to justify an F1 drive. a 3rd place in the cship and 6 wins is more credible than a F2 cship win. Even just driving a few races competently in Indycar is enough to confirm the capability of driving in F1.
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 03:38 (Ref:4080357)   #5770
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Or JPM for that matter. True he had already won the FIA F3000 when he went over to America prior to his F1 adventure, but it no doubt made him a better driver going over there

I did a little looking around about other drivers that came to mind. I was surprised to see that Peter Revson actually competed in F1 before he came into prominence in Can Am and USAC. Teo Fabi is a similar case. While I would have thought that he went to F1 after his first season (1983) with Forsythe in CART (where he had pole at Indy and won four races) - he actually ran most of the 1982 F1 season with Toleman. I think of Teo as the dominate driver in the 1981 Can Am, but he finished 2nd in points to Geoff Brabham despite having 4 wins to Geoff's two.
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 08:56 (Ref:4080383)   #5771
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F1 is the top level, but it's not comprehensively the top level. There are certain traits that make it no1. But the weakness from the upper hierarchy of F1/FIA coveting F1 as no1 like it's some precious delicate object that others can't get near is a monumental weakness and undermines them. Snobbery to the point of ridiculousness.
It may come across as a bit snobbish, but there is a clue in the name. Formula 1. So by default, it has to be considered as the top level of International Formula Racing.
Below that, Formula 2 and Formula 3 as international championships.

That's not to diminish the talent and capability of those in the Indycar series - but from an FIA's perspective they have to recognise it as a national (or regional at best) championship with an American-based sanctioning body, not international status.

They [FIA] also have a responsibility to protect their own feeder formulae, and so Formula 2, 3 and 4 will have clearly defined routes for drivers to graduate up to the highest level of international formula racing. It is in FIA's interests to give the potential to move from IndyCar to F1, but not make it an obvious route for drivers to take.
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 21:36 (Ref:4080485)   #5772
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I did a little looking around about other drivers that came to mind. I was surprised to see that Peter Revson actually competed in F1 before he came into prominence in Can Am and USAC. Teo Fabi is a similar case. While I would have thought that he went to F1 after his first season (1983) with Forsythe in CART (where he had pole at Indy and won four races) - he actually ran most of the 1982 F1 season with Toleman. I think of Teo as the dominate driver in the 1981 Can Am, but he finished 2nd in points to Geoff Brabham despite having 4 wins to Geoff's two.
Cristiano Da Matta was perhaps the last Indycar guy to do ok in F1. Didn't he even lead the 03 British GP in the Toyota for a few laps?? Think he got a rough deal from Cologne overall.

Bourdais showed flashes with Toro Rosso but has accidents and a lot of bad luck.
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 02:20 (Ref:4080509)   #5773
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It may come across as a bit snobbish, but there is a clue in the name. Formula 1. So by default, it has to be considered as the top level of International Formula Racing.
Below that, Formula 2 and Formula 3 as international championships.

That's not to diminish the talent and capability of those in the Indycar series - but from an FIA's perspective they have to recognise it as a national (or regional at best) championship with an American-based sanctioning body, not international status.

They [FIA] also have a responsibility to protect their own feeder formulae, and so Formula 2, 3 and 4 will have clearly defined routes for drivers to graduate up to the highest level of international formula racing. It is in FIA's interests to give the potential to move from IndyCar to F1, but not make it an obvious route for drivers to take.
Back in the 50's the Indy 500 was a round of the F1 World Championship.
Bernie tried to protect the name Grand Prix and get some copyright but that was a nonsense given there had been motorized Grand Prix that weren't F1 for 50 years..... Plus tennis Grand Prix and equestrian Grand Prix and they had long history too.

Then in the 60's and 70's it was easy to move from ACCUS events to FIA events with little problem.
It has only become more difficult in the last twenty years and even more difficult in the last decade, especially after the FIA became very protective toward the names F2 and F3 and linked them directly to its F1 title events.
That happened after Bernie had established GP1 and GP2 as his own class structures and Europe had opened up to the Renault class ladder and others began with a plethora of competing junior series.

So its more organized and more defined but is it BETTER organized than it was in F2 and F3 in the late 60's and 70's.
My OPINION is no. Sports car racing isn't better organized than it was in the 60's and 70's either. Its MORE organized than it was 40-50 years ago but its not BETTER organized. But that is just an opinion.
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 09:26 (Ref:4080528)   #5774
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Cristiano Da Matta was perhaps the last Indycar guy to do ok in F1. Didn't he even lead the 03 British GP in the Toyota for a few laps?? Think he got a rough deal from Cologne overall.

Bourdais showed flashes with Toro Rosso but has accidents and a lot of bad luck.
Yes da Matta I thought was better than his results suggested. He did lead the British GP in 03, although that was helped by a certain Irish nutter in a kilt. But he looked comfortable once in the lead. He definitely could hold his own in races when he got a chance and compared well against Panis, a race winner himself. And I agree on the rough deal from Toyota. As one of the Autosport journalists said in their end of season review, it wasn't like they replaced him with Michael Schumacher, but Zonta!

Bourdais did have quite a bit of bad luck. Australia, Spa, Monza and Fuji in 08 are proof of that. Plus the STR environment with Tost probably wasn't the best environment for him
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 11:39 (Ref:4080550)   #5775
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It may come across as a bit snobbish, but there is a clue in the name. Formula 1. So by default, it has to be considered as the top level of International Formula Racing.
Below that, Formula 2 and Formula 3 as international championships.

That's not to diminish the talent and capability of those in the Indycar series - but from an FIA's perspective they have to recognise it as a national (or regional at best) championship with an American-based sanctioning body, not international status.

They [FIA] also have a responsibility to protect their own feeder formulae, and so Formula 2, 3 and 4 will have clearly defined routes for drivers to graduate up to the highest level of international formula racing. It is in FIA's interests to give the potential to move from IndyCar to F1, but not make it an obvious route for drivers to take.
I can't tell where you actually believe your point, it if you're trying to troll me.

What are the FIA protecting with F1? Nothing. If anything, they're diminishing F1.

F2-3 are just stepping stone classes, and there's nothing to protect other than an F1 clique.

Defined routes to F1 is a brittle idea since drivers ultimately have to take responsibility of their own careers.

What are the FIA protecting F2/3 from exactly, a stepping stone where the likely F2 champ this season(and defending F3 champ) won't have an F1 drive next year?
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