Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 Jan 2002, 06:34 (Ref:193654)   #1
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,030
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Rare Video - The Great Race

I found a video at the Video store today called 'The Great Race', it was a review from the Hardie Ferodo/JH 1000's between 1978-1981, it was ok, showed a bit more than the 75/85 video, but still wasn't long enough, it also looked like the end was cut a bit, indicating it may have been on TV?. Some interesting points:

Moffat joined Mike in the commentary box back in 1978 at the mountain after his car has failed, they were still together in '99.

Was Moffat thinking of retiring after 1979, Evan Green asks him if he will be back in '80, and he says he would rather not answer it.

The video showed an edited and commentary free of Bartlett's Hardies Heroes '81 lap, that was wonderful, best one that i've seen.

It also got me thinking, how many rare video's (ie.. not sold any more) are there around these days from Australia's motorsport history?
racer69 is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Jan 2002, 08:38 (Ref:193672)   #2
DAVID PATERSON
Veteran
 
DAVID PATERSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Australia
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 5,549
DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Allan Moffat was always adamant that he wouldn't race without factory support and throughout the '70s Ford continally withdrew support from his team. By 1979 it was almost non-existent.

During 1979 CAMS decreed that homolgation for the XC Falcon would expire PRIOR to Sandown and Bathurst 1980. Ford made it clear that they were definitely NOT interested in racing the XD and in fact did not even homologate the car. Garry Willmington took it upon himself to do so and did all of the initial development and paperwork.

Throughout 1980 it seemed unlikely that Moffat would race at the enduros in 1980 and in fact he drove a Commodore at Sandown in 1980, on the proviso that he did NOT race a Ford at Bathurst. Three weeks prior to Bathurst, with the support of his associate sponsors, Moffat began building an XD. As we all know now, it was woefully underprepared and the engine expired on lap 3.

After that race and in retaliation for the unceremonious way he had been dumped by FoMoCo, Moffat declared that he would never again race a Ford. He held true to his word for about 8 years.
DAVID PATERSON is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Jan 2002, 23:26 (Ref:194102)   #3
Airhead
Veteran
 
Airhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location:
Coffs Harbour, Australia
Posts: 3,366
Airhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAirhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thanks for the comments David. That is the way I perceived his career to go as well in the late '70's to the mid '80's.

As an aside it is during this time period from the two car Moffat Ford Dealer Team Cobras of '78 to the Mazda RX7 that I believe shows his comparative lack of financial support in relation to his main opposition. Despite Ray's assertion that Brock was always in a team of paupers!

I also had the chance to look over the Bathurst highlights DVD's at Christmas time (thanks Luke) and was on the edge of my seat for the races of the 1970's. For me this was the golden period of the event. The current races pale in comparison.
Airhead is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2002, 00:22 (Ref:194116)   #4
Buckshot
Veteran
 
Buckshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Australia
Cambridge Gardens, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,624
Buckshot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBuckshot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Im also currently working my way through the DVD box set and last night watched Volumes 2 and 3. I'm a littlie bit disappointed they are just some rehashed Channel 7 special from 1987 hosted by a young Neil Crompton almost wearing a Safari Suit they look that dated.

Some of the finishes back then weren't as close as they are now. I think there was one race there in the late 70s Brock won by 3 Laps ? And when the 2 Falcons went accross the line together they must have had a very hefty lead to be able to do that - and then the jags did it a few years later.

If Skaifey had of won last year by 3 laps you guys would have all been squawking about it. But it seems it was ok to finish by that far a margin 20 odd years ago ? I don't understand.
Buckshot is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2002, 01:08 (Ref:194128)   #5
Crash Test
Veteran
 
Crash Test's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,208
Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Think about what some of the results would be like these days if they didn't have safety cars...it's no longer an enduro, but a 20 lap sprint after the last safety car leaves the track.

One video have seen in Drysdales Auto Books is a video on Longford.... if only I had large amounts of money to spend...
Crash Test is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2002, 01:32 (Ref:194137)   #6
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,030
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
CT is right, the safety cars have turned it into a sprint, not the classic enduro is once was. As Brock said in 1999, the days were when it was non stop all day, dodging the pick-up trucks and so on. If it wasn't for the safety car, how far in front would Menu/Plato have been in '97, or Skaife/Lowdnes the next year, and the last two were laughable, would they have been that close without the safety car, hell no.

The cars were more exciting to watch as well, and the early laps of '78, '81 & '82 are classic stuff, and the 1-3 for the Jags in '85 doesn't represent how close it was, Brock broke down with 3 to go while catching Goss, and the Ravaglia BMW was off song all day, yet finished on the same lap in 2nd, plus Goss had a broken seat.

PS.. on Moffat, why did he get to be #1 in 1980, and as far as i know, wasn't Bob Morris' team mate, yet was somehow cross-entered in it and drove it later in the race. He also seemed pretty confident of a win in '81 in the Mazda, he said it was going like a "pan-am jet mate" when interviewed by Wilko.

Last edited by racer69; 5 Jan 2002 at 01:36.
racer69 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2002, 13:17 (Ref:194293)   #7
Airhead
Veteran
 
Airhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location:
Coffs Harbour, Australia
Posts: 3,366
Airhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAirhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Mr 69

whenever Alan said "it's going like a Pan Am 747" you knew it was a half an hour away from total destruction. It was like a Morse code message for the faithful. Change your bets now!
Airhead is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2002, 14:35 (Ref:194335)   #8
Flaggie
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location:
Australia
Posts: 344
Flaggie should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If this current crop of drivers actually took any notice of yellow and white flags, we wouldn't need a stupid safety car, anyway.

However, since they dont, they've decided on using a safety car with arbitrarily makes races closer than what they should be. If someone's good enough to win by 6 laps, they should be allowed to race on their merits. The ONLY reason Skaife/Longhurst didn't win by the length of Conrod last year was because of safety cars. It's an absolute joke.

Can anyone actually point out for me ONE accident that was directly attributable to a quick lift truck, being covered under Yellows and Whites? I defy you to. Instead we have race control putting out safety cars to clear things that were way off race line. Can the safety Car, NOW. Or if not, then severely curtail its use.

<gets off soap box>
Flaggie is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2002, 23:26 (Ref:194606)   #9
Buckshot
Veteran
 
Buckshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Australia
Cambridge Gardens, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,624
Buckshot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBuckshot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Do you honestly think you could find track marshalls brave enough - or stupid enough to let dimwits like Rodney Forbes, Paul Morris or yegods, even Matt Neal go past them at full race pace whislt they're clearing up a car on Mt Panorama ?

Imagine the law suits AVESCO or CAMS or whoever would be setting themselves up for !
Buckshot is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2002, 00:22 (Ref:194618)   #10
Ray Bell
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location:
Various parts of Australia
Posts: 2,221
Ray Bell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I've never asserted that Brock was in a team of paupers... usually one of the best funded teams, maybe even the best at one time (in the nineties)...

Moffat sure was battling money problems after his star had dimmed with Ford, though I don't think he went terribly short in his Mazda/Stuyvesant years.
Ray Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2002, 01:05 (Ref:194646)   #11
Flaggie
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location:
Australia
Posts: 344
Flaggie should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
Do you honestly think you could find track marshalls brave enough - or stupid enough to let dimwits like Rodney Forbes, Paul Morris or yegods, even Matt Neal go past them at full race pace whislt they're clearing up a car on Mt Panorama ?

Imagine the law suits AVESCO or CAMS or whoever would be setting themselves up for !
Firstly. You're missing my point. The drivers DONT take any notice of yellow and white flags. Yellow flags are simple "A situation of possible danger exists ahead, be prepared to take evasive action." A white says that there is "slow moving behicles or service vehicles on track" Perfectly clear. If they actually took any notice of the flags, I wouldnt have a problem being out on the track pushing cars off. It's because they dont take any notice that we have a safety car.

Secondly, Paul Morris and Rodney Forbes are not dim wits. Matt Neal? He's a pom, so you expect stupid stuff from him.

Thirdly, Of course, if it's all gone to utter hell and there's cars scattered from bunghole to brekky time, and debris every where then yeah, put out the safety car. Last year's Bathurst for example. When Brock/Owen stuck it in the kitty at the Chase they cleared it under yellow flag. Good call. Then later in the race when Harris/Simpson stuck it in at Reid Park, and were up against the wall, well off line, they put out a safety car for that. Bad Call. It could have easily stayed there.

Just my 2c....
Flaggie is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2002, 01:33 (Ref:194650)   #12
Crash Test
Veteran
 
Crash Test's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,208
Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I remember talking to someone who raced at Bathurst in the days prior to safety cars, and he said it was never a problem... all the drivers ever had to do was drive to the conditions...
Crash Test is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2002, 13:34 (Ref:194876)   #13
Group'C'
Racer
 
Group'C''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Australia
Hobart /Tasmania
Posts: 353
Group'C' should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Flaggie your remark about the Harris/Simpson car shocks me, If that car was of line I'm Glad your not waving flags where I race!!!
Wasn't that the same place Brock put a car into,94
Croswell in practice 96
Lowndes in 97
All so wasn't Jason Bright's Falcon off the racing line when he got hit by Cameron McLean in Practice ,98 at Skyline
Remember the saftey cars are for the Saftey of everyone, are they not?
When there where no walls at Bathurst, there was plenty of area's to park a car well off line and out of the way, these days its a bit different

Thats just my 2c worth
Group'C' is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2002, 23:10 (Ref:195222)   #14
BJAY
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Australia
Canberra, Australia
Posts: 187
BJAY should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I totaly agree with Group'C'.
The Harris car was on the right hand side of the circuit, which is where a car would go if it had a loose there. So the Safety Car was needed. The Chase is very open with a sand trap at the end of it, nothing like Reid Park, so of course they could get the car away safely under racing conditions.

Any of you guys have the video "Classic Bathurst Crashes"? Near the end the is a little montage of clips, with one of them being an onboard in someone's car (early 80's) going up through the Cutting with a tow truck on one side, and a stranded car on the other. Barely enough room for the cars to get through, yet they're still going at race pace. That is just too dangerous these days.

BJ
BJAY is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jan 2002, 01:28 (Ref:195261)   #15
FalconEL
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Australia
Brisbane, Queensland
Posts: 366
FalconEL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
BJAY,

I think I remember the footage. It was an incar shot from Dick Johnson's XE Falcon in 1982 as the cars (himself, Kevin Bartlett and John Harvey) made their way through the Lawrence/Russell, Wigston/Harrington, Finnigan/Gates Commodore crash at the Cutting. It was pretty dangerous back then I agree, but I think you'll find DJ wasn't at full race pace, more likely about 6/10ths.

There was another instance when Peter Willamson in the Celica arrived around the blind left hander before the Cutting in 1981 and came very close to hitting the back of a truck which was stopped on the left, however there is no question that he was still at full race pace. I think at the time he was mouthing off to Mike Raymond on the Racecam and more than likely missed the flaggies signals or just didn't care about anything other than not losing time flogging the little tool-eater Toyota up the hill by backing off.

In my opinion, back in the days of Quick-Lift trucks etc. the drivers in the main, drove to the conditions (respected and expected that there might have been a rescue vehicle ahead) and therefore there would have been very few, if any accidents involving rescue vehicles. To me it's all about common sense and respect. No question, thesedays the cars are a lot faster, however the current crop of drivers don't show the same type of respect for:

a) their own equipment (they don't really have to because they are virtually unbreakable thesedays so they flog the things to death. The days of showing a little "mechanical sympathy" are long gone).

b) the conditions (Bathurst 2000 and 2001 was a good example where cars were spearing off everywhere repeatedly virtually all day)

c) their opponents (crashing into each other in V8 Supercar racing is acceptable whereas back in the days of Group C, panel damage occurred fairly rarely).

What was the thread again???????? Just my two cents worth anyway...

CD.
FalconEL is offline  
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Surfer's, Great Race, Or ...? GP Racer ChampCar World Series 26 27 Oct 2003 11:32
What a great race! Surtees Formula One 37 7 Apr 2003 13:11
What another great F1 race that was ! ! ! ! rdjones Formula One 30 16 Sep 2002 05:09
The Great Race 21 Crash Test Australasian Touring Cars. 9 15 Feb 2002 00:14
Great Race ! lipper Formula One 1 19 Mar 2001 23:00


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.