[Multi 21] Sir Lewis

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Alan52

I don’t think “one of their own” comes into it.Russell or Bottas are not close to Verstappen or Leclerc -or Ricciardo for that matter.It is a big risk to have an inferior driver and rely on your car to make up the difference.
Re Imola and Mugello I was referring to Russell in the Williams and the mistakes he made under pressure when finally in a points scoring position.I can see how hot you are for Russell but on most of the evidence of the past 2 years I would take Lando Norris ahead of him if you want the Young Brit thing.

You're entitled to your opinion. Time will tell with Russell, as I've little doubt he will get his chance. Time will also tell with Leclerc as, for me, the jury is still out there. I think Lando is good too and it'll be interesting to see how he fares with Danny Ric as a teammate, especially if the car turns out to be good. Your terminology is unwelcome in the sense that you make me out to be some kind of Russell fanboy and yet you point out his mistakes in a Williams while extolling Leclerc's virtues, one who has made some fairly silly errors himself in better machinery. I've no axe to grind though, I guess all will become clear in due course...

[djinvicta]

I don't post now.. such aggression in a reply, we all know who.. 20 years on here.. it's changed..such a shame..ok I didn't get Maths O level.. 17 years on here...

[E.B]

I think we need to have a few agree to disagree moments ....

Iverun out of popcorn.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

So they have the same cars, same tyres, same strategy, same chance to win the race.....please enlighten me to how this isn’t equal

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yes it means the same - probably. What the heck does 'equal' mean in this situation anyway?
.

Consider the cars being item of clothing (gym wear, running gear, shoes) instead of a car.

Consider that instead of driving a car, they had to run instead of drive (middle distance, half marathon, military course?).

And consider that Bottas had to wear an outfit and shoes tailor made to fit Hamilton.

They both have the same outfit and shoes, they both have same opportunity at the start of the race ot win, but it's not an equal opportunity.

Who's more likely to to have their outfit impede them throughout the course and also get blisters in that scenario?

[Kato]

Well I like Valtteri he held much promise, but he is not the answer. He unfortunately rang up against Lewis. Mentally, again unfortunately, Lewis out bid Nico. He, Nico, had the talent but not the overall hard core dedication above everything else in his life. to beat Lewis. A shame really he could have made things so much more interesting.

Perhaps that is why Lewis has nothing of substance in his life. I am 35 years of age with a **** load of money already, more than thirty normal people will make in their working life. I am interested in underwear, music and being cool. Can anyone here see the disconnect?? So pay him 40M per year for the requested three years and lets all go back to sleep.

Or... Let's roll the dice.

[Derwent]

Originally Posted by Greem

On multiple occasions across multiple seasons both Mercedes drivers have moaned about some form of perceived favouritism, whether it be pit strategy, tyres, track position for qualifying or the breakfast pastry tray - that seems to me to be a team that has the balance just about right.

Referring back to Hamilton's value to the parent company: in 2014, so about a hundred years ago, I was operating the light panel on what's now Hamilton Straight at Silverstone, in front of the grandstands, opposite the bottom end of the pit lane. On the Friday during a break a group of about 15 to 20 lads, roughly 20-25 years old, stood behind me. Typical F1 fans they were not - they were from Sarf Lahndan, round Brixton/Camberwell/Peckham area, a mix of races/styles/haircuts and so on. Very much not your stereotypical F1 fan, yet very much not your stereotypical Brixtonite either. Not a gang, as such, either, despite some of the bling they had on show! They'd never been to a racing circuit before, much less F1, and they were all there for one reason: Lewis.

I had a long chat with them over the course of the weekend as they kept coming back; they were genuinely blown away by the GP2 cars but the speed and handling of the F1 cars completely cooked their noggins.

Two of the group had pretty decent jobs (I forget what now) and both had chosen Mercedes company cars. Because of Lewis. The rest of them hankered after Mercedes cars, for the same reason.

I wonder, all these years later, whether they're still watching and more of them are driving Mercs?

That's the value he brings - it's hardly a quantifiable thing to most of us, but I bet the Daimler board can write it down in €€€!

I think that 2020 changed that. Lewis's BLM stuff and gestures have put a lot of folk off him, many the middle aged professionals who buy Mercedes. While the kneeling goes down well with some folk, they are not likely to be people who buy new Mercedes.

[Aysedasi]

There is no doubt that Hamilton's BLM stance, plus his lifestyle generally have put a lot of people off of him. I no longer read posts about him on social media as it is full of quite desperate and sometimes disgusting hate. I don't recall a British sporting champion who has beaten pretty well every record in the book being vilified by so many British people.

As for the Hamilton/Bottas clothing analogy, yes, I get it of course. But frankly I don't think it takes us anywhere at all. Whether it is Lewis, or Senna, or Schumacher, it's never been any different. Are you telling me that Colin Chapman didn't design/engineer his cars to best benefit Jim Clark? And who wouldn't? All the time that the teammate is still picking up good points and winning when the other does not, then the team is going to be perfectly happy.

TBH, I've completely forgotten where we were going with this and like others, interest is fast waning.....

[S griffin]

I would like to see someone else winning the title for a change, however I am going to keep watching and not moan all the time Lewis wins, like some do. For those haters on social media who constantly feel the need to put him down, well they are only taking away their own enjoyment of the sport

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Derwent

I think that 2020 changed that. Lewis's BLM stuff and gestures have put a lot of folk off him, many the middle aged professionals who buy Mercedes. While the kneeling goes down well with some folk, they are not likely to be people who buy new Mercedes.

Of the people I mentioned, more than half were PoC. Given their ages and the time that's passed since talking to them, they'll be approaching the early stages of middle age in the next 5 or so years.

I imagine a number of them remain exactly the target market for Mercedes.

One of the most interesting things that stands out about the vilification Hamilton gets about his political stance is that the vilification is the _entire point of the stance_. Taking a stand, getting off the fence, adopting a stance - all of that might have made people decide they now don't like Lewis where previously they didn't care either way, but in doing what he's done this last 12 months or so I would imagine he's picked up a lot of new supporters along the way. They might not like F1, but they'll get behind someone on their side who's got the platform to speak about it.

Younger people with disposable income and a hero aligned with a brand. The Daimler marketing staff must love him.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Re Imola and Mugello I was referring to Russell in the Williams and the mistakes he made under pressure when finally in a points scoring position.I can see how hot you are for Russell but on most of the evidence of the past 2 years I would take Lando Norris ahead of him if you want the Young Brit thing.

This thread is a trainwreck and I hate to post until we have real news. But this post caught me eye.

Rookies are not allowed to make mistakes? Especially when they show promise? Maybe Lewis should have been kicked out of F1 after his 2007 gravel trap incident? Clearly he couldn't handle the pressure and had no real future in F1.

Richard

[billy bleach]

Learnado Messi earns €123 million a season. - Makes Lewis look like a bargain !!

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

This thread is a trainwreck and I hate to post until we have real news. But this post caught me eye.

Rookies are not allowed to make mistakes? Especially when they show promise? Maybe Lewis should have been kicked out of F1 after his 2007 gravel trap incident? Clearly he couldn't handle the pressure and had no real future in F1.

Richard

Russell was not a rookie at the time.I’m not saying he is not a driver who deserves a place on the grid.I’m saying that based on the last 2 years it is hard to see why he should get a drive in the dominant team except as a number 2 driver behind Hamilton,Verstappen,Leclerc,Ricciardo,Sainz etc.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Russell was not a rookie at the time.I’m not saying he is not a driver who deserves a place on the grid.I’m saying that based on the last 2 years it is hard to see why he should get a drive in the dominant team except as a number 2 driver behind Hamilton,Verstappen,Leclerc,Ricciardo,Sainz etc.

No. Russell was not in his first year in F1. He was in his second. Which I guess makes him an "old hand". If we want, we can say that Lewis as barely still a rookie when he had his incident in the Chinese GP (16th of 17 on the calendar)?

My point. Drivers make mistakes. And clearly it would have been quite stupid to bench Lewis after his. And ALL F1 drivers make mistakes. Some make big ones quite late in their careers. Including multiple world champions! Now, if the only thing a driver does is make mistakes, that is different. But if the mistakes are mixed with flashes of brilliance, and you are still new to F1, then I personally think its short sighted to focus on just the negative.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. For example, I am pretty sure Hamilton is better than Russell. Probably Max as well. I do start to wonder if we saw Russell in a top car that it might be harder to place the rest of your list (who I respect for sure) above him. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.

I think what irks people is that some speak of Russell replacing Lewis (given the uncertainty between Lewis and Mercedes). And some equate that in their mind as "this guy thinks George is better than Lewis! He is off his rocker!" I doubt anyone truly thinks that with all things being equal, they would pick Russell over Lewis. But if thing don't work out with Lewis (they cant come to terms). In my most humble opinion, given who is locked into 2021 seats and who might be available (or can be easily made available), I think Russell is the obvious choice.

Now, if you want to pick a "dream team" and ignore factors such as who has a contract with who and ignore personalities, etc. Then yes, I might pick a different combo for Mercedes. Maybe Max and Leclerc, or Leclrec and Russell, or... A and B, or C and D, etc.

I just wish Lewis would sign his contract so this thread can move on!

Richard

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Russell was not a rookie at the time.I’m not saying he is not a driver who deserves a place on the grid.I’m saying that based on the last 2 years it is hard to see why he should get a drive in the dominant team except as a number 2 driver behind Hamilton,Verstappen,Leclerc,Ricciardo,Sainz etc.

It's easier to see why when you don't have a list necessarily ranking in that order....

No disrespect intended whatsoever. We all have our opinions on how that list should work.

[Akrapovic]

I mean, Russell deserves a drive in a top car because when he had a drive in a top car, he would've won the race had the team not made a mess of it.

That's the long and short of it.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I mean, Russell deserves a drive in a top car because when he had a drive in a top car, he would've won the race had the team not made a mess of it.

That's the long and short of it.

He might have won the race.

Also, why did he get a puncture? Did he go wide round the back and go over the run off?

[Akrapovic]

Unlikely. It was a slow puncture.

I like how the kid led the race in a car he hadn't driven before, dominating his more experienced team mate, and the people are out with "Well he might've won" and trying to find ways to blame him for the failures of Mercedes and Pirelli.

Suppose we're in the Lewis thread aren't we. The only thread in the world were the man can hold all the records and we get upset because he has knees.

[peebee2]

You can’t get a slow puncture by running over the back of a kerb or over small debris off track?

Sorry to rely on facts rather than enthusiasm but when it all went wrong Russell was ahead, sure, but Bottas was catching him. Russell might well have won but we’ll never know. And we don’t know which driver would have come out on top - could easily have been Bottas, it was far too early to say one dominated the other.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Derwent

I think that 2020 changed that. Lewis's BLM stuff and gestures have put a lot of folk off him, many the middle aged professionals who buy Mercedes. While the kneeling goes down well with some folk, they are not likely to be people who buy new Mercedes.

ah yes. the white ones.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

This thread is a trainwreck and I hate to post until we have real news. But this post caught me eye.

Rookies are not allowed to make mistakes? Especially when they show promise? Maybe Lewis should have been kicked out of F1 after his 2007 gravel trap incident? Clearly he couldn't handle the pressure and had no real future in F1.

Richard

That exact incident sprung to mind, in the same context, but you beat me to posting it!
Sits back and waits for "it was Ron's fault".

[S griffin]

I think this whole situation needs to be sorted. It's gone on way too long and should really have been sorted sooner

[john ruston]

Now that’s rubbish!
It’s up to the principles to sort situation and nowt to do with anyone else
Longer it goes on the more stuff people who have absolutely no perception of the nuances involved will post and fill up the space between seasons.
He will , or won’t , Merc will or won’t.It’s not going to solve the worlds problems.
Only thing is I hope Ben and his best mate Jim win Americas cup then you never know Jim will cough up for Lewis contract. ( also pay for redesign of Grenadier, they don’t look to good)
If people have a problem with kneeling thats unfortunate as they will find themselves on wrong side of history.
I have a Merc and didn’t effect me!
This should be good for another ten comments!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by peebee2

You can’t get a slow puncture by running over the back of a kerb or over small debris off track?

Sorry to rely on facts rather than enthusiasm but when it all went wrong Russell was ahead, sure, but Bottas was catching him. Russell might well have won but we’ll never know. And we don’t know which driver would have come out on top - could easily have been Bottas, it was far too early to say one dominated the other.

Could have, but I somehow suspect not 'easily'. Bearing in mind how Russell made Bottas look like the novice twice earlier in the race. I have to be careful though, I'm sounding like a Russell fanboy again.....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

Of the people I mentioned, more than half were PoC. Given their ages and the time that's passed since talking to them, they'll be approaching the early stages of middle age in the next 5 or so years.

I imagine a number of them remain exactly the target market for Mercedes.

One of the most interesting things that stands out about the vilification Hamilton gets about his political stance is that the vilification is the _entire point of the stance_. Taking a stand, getting off the fence, adopting a stance - all of that might have made people decide they now don't like Lewis where previously they didn't care either way, but in doing what he's done this last 12 months or so I would imagine he's picked up a lot of new supporters along the way. They might not like F1, but they'll get behind someone on their side who's got the platform to speak about it.

Younger people with disposable income and a hero aligned with a brand. The Daimler marketing staff must love him.

And can you imagine the public opinion if they don't sign him, and his 'political opinions' are put forward as the reason?

[bella]

supporting many of the points on this thread, next time you’re on the road, look at the people who are driving new and recent mercs.

they’re all young.