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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:44 (Ref:3862201)   #31
Akrapovic
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Originally Posted by ascarracinguk View Post
Right. So clear cut penalty for Vettel then. A breach of sporting regulations 29.1, not stopping his car when requested to do so. As confirmed by Jo Bauer

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...ng-weighbridge
https://www.fia.com/file/74025/downl...token=8Dk4HzgE

For the benefit of Sprinkles....itís not nothing, and is on page 24 of the regs if you want to brush up on it

Iím happy to concede Hamilton did something wrong if the stewards deem him to have broken a rule....it was clumsy driving nevertheless
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And refuses to turn his engine off by Jo Bauer, so a breach of the regs
Rule 29.1 is in regards to drivers skipping the weighing procedure and driving past through to the team's garage. It states that if you miss the FIA garage you will be instructed to go back to the FIA garage. Vettel absolutely did not miss the garage and did not violate 29.1.

I'm reading the same regulations as you (funny note, the title of the PDF is Draft 1999 Sporting Regulations. Could do with an update) and I'm not seeing anything about switching the engine off, or not being allowed to drive off the weighbridge in these, as I said.

Probably get pinged for hitting the cone and being disrespectful to stewards. That's pretty normal in most sports.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:45 (Ref:3862202)   #32
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The reason they stopped that is because the teams would adjust the car for the final run and have it weighed as legal. The obvious example is "water cooled brakes" where the teams ran illegally underweight and topped up the water towards the end of the race to be legal. I recall, but can't find a link about it, a team which did the same in qualifying and for the final run would add a set of tyres that had water in it to meet the minimum. Madness.
I remember teams in the early '80s using "water cooled breaks", notably Brabham and Williams. Tyrrell went one further in 1984, by adding lead shot to the water tank.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:49 (Ref:3862203)   #33
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ascarracinguk should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridascarracinguk should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridascarracinguk should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Rule 29.1 is in regards to drivers skipping the weighing procedure and driving past through to the team's garage. It states that if you miss the FIA garage you will be instructed to go back to the FIA garage. Vettel absolutely did not miss the garage and did not violate 29.1.

I'm reading the same regulations as you (funny note, the title of the PDF is Draft 1999 Sporting Regulations. Could do with an update) and I'm not seeing anything about switching the engine off, or not being allowed to drive off the weighbridge in these, as I said.

Probably get pinged for hitting the cone and being disrespectful to stewards. That's pretty normal in most sports.
After any free practice session or during the qualifying practice session cars will be weighed as follows :
i) When signalled to do so the driver will proceed directly to the FIA garage and stop his engine.
A reprimand will be imposed on any driver who fails to stop when signalled to do so.....

Not sure what part isnít breaking 29.1....he failed to stop his engine when signalled to do so, and also drove at an FIA steward
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:54 (Ref:3862204)   #34
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Originally Posted by ascarracinguk View Post
After any free practice session or during the qualifying practice session cars will be weighed as follows :
i) When signalled to do so the driver will proceed directly to the FIA garage and stop his engine.
A reprimand will be imposed on any driver who fails to stop when signalled to do so.....

Not sure what part isnít breaking 29.1....he failed to stop his engine when signalled to do so, and also drove at an FIA steward
Good call on the engine, my bad.

However, the second part does not apply. You cannot apply rules using sentences that are cut off. The full statement is

A reprimand will be impose on any driver who fails to stop when signalled to do so, provided the car is then brought back to the FIA garage without delay and that the FIA technical delegate is satisfied the car has been brought back in exactly the same condition it was in when it was driven into the pits.

This is about missing the box, which he certainly did not do - so that doesn't apply here. Also, the regulation states if the car is brought back in the exact same condition (which it was because it never missed it), then it's a reprimand only.

Also, did we all know there was a maximum and minimum height for trophies? I've never been that far down in the rules - it almost reads like a parody!
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:56 (Ref:3862205)   #35
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Lets wait on how pedantic the stewards are going to be about it, because the ultimate in pedantisms would be to suggest that 4 weighing pads, surrounded by cones doesn't actually constitute the FIA garage and so could be argued that the engine doesn't specifically need to be switched off.

The wording should be designated weighing area rather than garage.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:57 (Ref:3862207)   #36
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ascarracinguk should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridascarracinguk should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridascarracinguk should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Haha yup. Itís an interesting read though. No doubt they will decide soon enough
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:04 (Ref:3862209)   #37
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While we are all reading the FIA regulations, why isn't Lewis penalised under International Sporting Code Appendix L chapter 3 section 5.

5. Wearing of jewellery
The wearing of jewellery in the form of body piercing or metal neck
chains is prohibited during the competition and may therefore be
checked before the start.

LH was clearly wearing an ear ring when removing his helmet in parc ferme at the end of qualifying.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:05 (Ref:3862210)   #38
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Damn, disqualify him from the championship
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:09 (Ref:3862211)   #39
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gert should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgert should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgert should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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The reason they stopped that is because the teams would adjust the car for the final run and have it weighed as legal. The obvious example is "water cooled brakes" where the teams ran illegally underweight and topped up the water towards the end of the race to be legal. I recall, but can't find a link about it, a team which did the same in qualifying and for the final run would add a set of tyres that had water in it to meet the minimum. Madness.
OK, I understand why they do it, but I guess there can be a better solution than "randomly" picking a guy at a "random" moment ? I a dry-wet session this could massively disadvantage the chosen driver.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:12 (Ref:3862213)   #40
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Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles View Post
Here's the onboard, so people can make sure they've seen it before commenting: https://streamable.com/h8fo3

As it shows, Vettel is in a hurry but he explicitly follows the instructions of the guy when he waves him off, the guy even gives him an extra push.
Thanks for that. Since he has red tires, that means it must be after his aborted first attempt (outlap only), or right at the end of the Q2 session?
He did his timed lap on the yellow tires.

The instructions from the guy with the white shirt are a bit stupid. He is waving Vettel forward while the other guy is still taking away the cone.
Also, he does mention Vettel to advance or drive away.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:14 (Ref:3862214)   #41
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OK, I understand why they do it, but I guess there can be a better solution than "randomly" picking a guy at a "random" moment ? I a dry-wet session this could massively disadvantage the chosen driver.
Same rules for everyone and has been for decades, just this time it cost ferrari because of the strategy they were running. Daft thing is they didnít need to pit and switch tyres, it was their choice and Vettels choice to be so agitated...he still had time left to complete his laps
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:15 (Ref:3862215)   #42
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Thanks for that. Since he has red tires, that means it must be after his aborted first attempt (outlap only), or right at the end of the Q2 session?
He did his timed lap on the yellow tires.

The instructions from the guy with the white shirt are a bit stupid. He is waving Vettel forward while the other guy is still taking away the cone.
Also, he does mention Vettel to advance or drive away.
He also tells Vettel to cut his engine, which he doesnít. Itís for this that Vettel is being investigated
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:23 (Ref:3862217)   #43
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gert should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgert should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgert should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Same rules for everyone and has been for decades, just this time it cost ferrari because of the strategy they were running. Daft thing is they didnít need to pit and switch tyres, it was their choice and Vettels choice to be so agitated...he still had time left to complete his laps
For me this is not about Ferrari or Vettel. The rules are the same for everyone, but don't get applied to everyone. I think a better arrangement can be found where noone in put in a disadvantage.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:24 (Ref:3862218)   #44
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For me this is not about Ferrari or Vettel. The rules are the same for everyone, but don't get applied to everyone. I think a better arrangement can be found where noone in put in a disadvantage.
But they do get applied to everyone, itís a random process, at some point you will get pinged into the weigh bridge. What solution would you suggest? Where is the deterrent if itís not random?
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 19:30 (Ref:3862219)   #45
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Thanks for that. Since he has red tires, that means it must be after his aborted first attempt (outlap only), or right at the end of the Q2 session?
He did his timed lap on the yellow tires.

The instructions from the guy with the white shirt are a bit stupid. He is waving Vettel forward while the other guy is still taking away the cone.
Also, he does mention Vettel to advance or drive away.
Exactly, these guys seem completely clueless about what to do and yet Vettel simply follows their instructions. Ferrari are claiming Vettel did turn off his engine on the bridge, so let's see if that's true. If it is, there is no reason to penalize him for anything.
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