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Old 14 Nov 2018, 23:08 (Ref:3863374)   #16
V8 Fireworks
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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We look back at these things with fondness now but at the time fans hated them, and then the GTR that came after them.
Such so-called "fans" seem a bit thick! Albeit they could and should be mad at Ford Australia for not selling the Sierra Cosworth locally so you could have one in your driveway.

A simple requirement for two wheel drive only and a maximum capacity of 2.0L for turbocharged cars (so Nissan could run the Skyline GTS-T instead of GTR) would have allowed for great battles between Sierra, Skyline, and Commodore to continue indefinitely!

The Commodore could have had it's capacity bumped up to say 5.7L, which surely would be enough to make it competitive against 2.0L turbos? BMW runners could have run a 540i with a capacity bump to 5.7L (maybe a 5.7L version of the V12 engine from the 850i?). Later on, the Ford runners could then have upgraded to a 2WD version of the Escort Cosworth or a Falcon with a 5.7 V8, depending on what they preferred.

Where was the initiative to keep turbocharged cars and keep a good variety of manufacturers in the ATCC!? Since you are moving away from Group A, then why not make rules flexible to accommodate as many manufacturers as possible? Why not have 2.0L turbos racing on equal terms with 5.7L NA cars?


The Toyota Supra runners could have upgraded from the JZA70 to the iconic JZA80 -- a downsized 2.0L version of the 2JZ engine may have been a great base for a touring car! The Jones team may have entered a lovely turbocharged 2.0L rear drive Audi 80 which would have been a truly grand thing!

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These cars were 100% the reason the V8 rules got put together.
A terrible set of restrictive rules! Not even permitting a BMW 540i for outright contention let alone anything else not a Commodore or Falcon.

How about:

Option 1: Two-wheel-drive, maximum 2000cc, forced induction, 1100kg minimum, 10" maximum rim width [Sierra, R32 Skyline GTS-T, HR31 Skyline etc]
Option 2: Two-wheel-drive, maximum 5700cc, naturally aspirated, 1250kg minimum, 12" maximum rim width [Commodore, Falcon, 540i etc]
* Rotary engines, 1000cc maximum for option 1, 2850cc maximum for option 2.

For all: Non-standard front splitter and rear wing allowed as per Group 3A

Why was a such simple equivalence too hard for them!? Why on earth make a fleet of Sierras obsolete? Why on earth alienate works BMW, Nissan and Toyota teams? Absolute madness!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 14 Nov 2018 at 23:38.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 07:34 (Ref:3863405)   #17
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E.B should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridE.B should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridE.B should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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We look back at these things with fondness now but at the time fans hated them, and then the GTR that came after them.

These cars were 100% the reason the V8 rules got put together.
Surely back then the local market found the Commodore / Falcon, Holden / Ford in a more dominant market position. Now Holden and Ford are barely in the car market, outsold by Toyota and every other overseas sourced cars.. Ford v Holden now is becoming less relevant with every year that passes.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 08:15 (Ref:3863420)   #18
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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A terrible set of restrictive rules! Not even permitting a BMW 540i for outright contention let alone anything else not a Commodore or Falcon.
And yet these terrible restrictive rules have outlived the life of any other comparable racing class by a 4 or 5 times.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 08:58 (Ref:3863431)   #19
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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And yet these terrible restrictive rules have outlived the life of any other comparable racing class by a 4 or 5 times.
Hardly consolation for Skyline enthusiasts with obsolete Nissan flags.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 10:00 (Ref:3863442)   #20
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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And yet these terrible restrictive rules have outlived the life of any other comparable racing class by a 4 or 5 times.
That's a good point.
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Old 15 Nov 2018, 19:58 (Ref:3863529)   #21
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Trevor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have been trying to find a post I posted on here years and years ago, it contained a picture of a young bloke holding a sign saying that "V8Supercars will be gone by 2018). I pretty much nailed it - I just with I could find it
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 04:31 (Ref:3863895)   #22
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bathurst77 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There seems to be a good supply of rose tinted glasses in this forum.

the 5 litre v8 formula was brought in as Group A was killing racing.
The crowds were down in a big way, promoters were complaining entries were thin and fans couldnt relate to sierras and gtrs and bmw etc

They had to "load" the rules to make the holden competitive or nobody would go.

the 5litre v8 formula was almost a panic to save touring car racing.
Unfortunately they seemed to have lost "touring cars" in the process.
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 07:08 (Ref:3863929)   #23
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Unfortunately they seemed to have lost "touring cars" in the process.
Well that was more than 20 years later, and to their credit, nobody has died since...
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 12:15 (Ref:3863967)   #24
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FormulaFox is heading for a stewards' enquiry!
Where do I see Supercars in five years time...?

In the same place it's in now, with all the same arguments, complaints, etc surrounding it.

But possibly with new engine regulations.
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 17:21 (Ref:3864002)   #25
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Toyota Prius wins the Vegetarian Express Bathurst 1000.
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 21:20 (Ref:3864041)   #26
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GROUPA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nissan GTR was beaten in one race (forgot what year) Lakeside by Tony Longhurst in the M3 which was not allowed to run in it's full spec the Falcon & Commodore had a lot of freedoms and could still not match the M3

I think Mike Raymond and others have alot to answer for
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 22:37 (Ref:3864049)   #27
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Toyota Prius wins the Vegetarian Express Bathurst 1000.
Toyota TS050 Hybrid wins the 86th 24 Hours of Le Mans

Fixed that for you

While I don't think it is optimal for sportscars to be carrying hundreds of kilograms of batteries, the BMW i8, Porsche 918 and Honda NSX are the start of hybrid sportscars, the Porsche 911 will soon be going hybrid too, and eventually you'd expect other sportscars to follow hybrid trends (even USA's own Ford GT, Mustang, Dodge Viper, Corvette and Camaro?)...

Arguably the electric motors have advantages for torque vectoring (like the NSX's front axle) and torque fill (like the NSX's rear axle). Electric motors may also find their way onto the turbocharger shaft (like in F1) as a kind of anti-lag for pre-spooling on the one hand and energy recovery on the other hand.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 18 Nov 2018 at 22:43.
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Old 18 Nov 2018, 23:29 (Ref:3864062)   #28
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Toyota TS050 Hybrid wins the 86th 24 Hours of Le Mans

Fixed that for you

While I don't think it is optimal for sportscars to be carrying hundreds of kilograms of batteries, the BMW i8, Porsche 918 and Honda NSX are the start of hybrid sportscars, the Porsche 911 will soon be going hybrid too, and eventually you'd expect other sportscars to follow hybrid trends (even USA's own Ford GT, Mustang, Dodge Viper, Corvette and Camaro?)...

Arguably the electric motors have advantages for torque vectoring (like the NSX's front axle) and torque fill (like the NSX's rear axle). Electric motors may also find their way onto the turbocharger shaft (like in F1) as a kind of anti-lag for pre-spooling on the one hand and energy recovery on the other hand.
The 918 in particular has really shown how, despite the extra weight, hybrid drive systems can be a great boon to sportscars. A lot of attitudes changed when people saw what the 918 could do despite being weighed down by those extra motors and batteries, while still sounding great.

The next step is a hybrid sportscar where the electric motors ALWAYS drive the wheels and the engine is exclusively an electricity generator(which, to be frank, is how ALL hybrids should work) - people who were blown away by the 918 are going to have their heads explode once someone does that.
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Old 19 Nov 2018, 02:47 (Ref:3864095)   #29
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by GROUPA View Post
Nissan GTR was beaten in one race (forgot what year) Lakeside by Tony Longhurst in the M3 which was not allowed to run in it's full spec the Falcon & Commodore had a lot of freedoms and could still not match the M3

I think Mike Raymond and others have alot to answer for
The GTR was beaten in a lot of races.

The GTR was the dominant car of '91 and '92, but now where near as dominant as the Sierra's were in '88 and '89.

The '91, '92 & '93 M3 spec was well above what was allowed under Group A rules, but did fall sort of full DTM spec..
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Old 19 Nov 2018, 06:44 (Ref:3864128)   #30
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The '91, '92 & '93 M3 spec was well above what was allowed under Group A rules, but did fall sort of full DTM spec..
Especially with the "special" European attitude to scrutineering.
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