New Zealand Touring Car Championship

[Goat Boy]

Well the car park was pretty full, I don't think Sunday numbers matched those for the Ferrari fest last year but I was away so didn't make that one unfortunately. Great to see the 92 Berger Ferrari (and the 3-seater Arrows) ripping around the track though, they sounded sensational!

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by promax

you were there puke? or just stirring again?

Maxi, I was there along with the other Max 1000 Spectators.
The Toyota of Bargwanna had more than a second on Ross so after a Lap or so it was all over. I still cant seem to get my head around the cars forming on the grid in Separate Classes even if TL cars were faster than several TLX cars.

I only watched the First 2 races, that was enough and only the first few laps anyway. The cars were so spread out it looked like a test session.

I was told over the Weekend that the Toyota's had about 30 more BHP than before, and if they didn't get that wee gift they were going to pull the Plug. Maybe NR is already at the limit on the Nissan.

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by raymond

I wouldn't know, I wasn't there.
However I can understand what you are saying.

At the moment; historic racing excepted, both the current "Tier One" and ST meetings could be described as this. Especially when compared to the days not so long ago when we had 30 plus NZV8's, and Formula Fords and 4 other subscribed classes.
Maybe even compared to the late 70's and early 80's with a dozen Formula Pacifics and a shed-load of Shellsport cars...I don't know; because it is a matter of opinion.

What it does illustrate is the fractionation of classes hasn't helped, and the sooner we start to all play on the same playing field the better. The reasons for the initial split may have been justified, but now we need to move on and use what we have. In ST we have a promotions group that could benefit all National classes, and we obviouslyt still have competitors out there who really just want to race.

It was nice with only 6/8 Classes 9 3/4 hours between our races, and it was all over by 4pm, but very little Buzz from when I have been involved in the Past. I am glad I didn't pay to get in, enjoyed what I was there for, my 12 year old loved the whole weekend, away racing with Dad and we were both home safely in the North Island by 9pm.

The TRS was ok, I come from a Single Seater back ground so enjoy that sort of thing.
The NZV8 was very bad, they (Ross and Bargwanna) need to take up BNT V8ST offer and go and race with them, but can't see that happening anyway, way battle over 12th place.
The lack of any Spectators must be a very major concern, at a so called major meeting. Be interesting to see what if any Official Numbers come out, but my pick would be under 1000, if not half that.

[NZSTfan]

I kept an eye on everything this weekend thanks to Race Monitor. I was/am surprised that there has been no chat about TRS from the weekend just gone. Some of our kiwis did reasonably well from what I can tell, and I would have thought there would have been some discussion about the new car....but there you go.

Does anyone (Nigel??) know when the TRS races will be screened? I am assuming it will be on Sky, but I can't find anything yet.

From a TLX perspective, Bargs Camry must have been a rocket compared to the other 4. There was around 4-5 seconds covering the TLX's for qually. Maybe those cars don't have the setup brains that Bargs and his crew has. Obliterated would be the word I would use. But I still think that getting into the 25's for qually is pretty good. I cant for the life of me find any qually times for ST as the new website does not seem to have a decent archive, but can anyone remember what the top ST time was at Ruapuna in times gone by?

Anyway, weather seemed to be very dry from the TRS clips on both Tv1 and Tv3 (yes, both news programs actually did a little bit on them ), so dust would not have been a nice thing to deal with.

So Puke, you reckon there was only a 1000 or so spectators there? If so that is disappointing because, all the V8 stuff to one side for a moment, the TRS is the top open wheeler class we have and I would have thought that alone would have bought out a few thou'

A question for the NZV8 fans on here. I saw the results from R3 and it looked like a TLX (Bargs) and then 2 TL's. So does that mean that the podium would represent that, or do they have a separate podium for both classes that race within the same race?

Also, maybe the mods should move this discussion into the NZV8 thread as this thread was about the older NZ Touring Cars, not the current NZV8TC.

Hope your all well and handling the heat....crikey its hot today

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by pukekoheracer

The NZV8 was very bad, they (Ross and Bargwanna) need to take up BNT V8ST offer and go and race with them.

Well, if the dribble that I heard on Track Torques website yesterday between the websites owner (don't know his name sorry) and Ian Booth is to be believed, it is supposed to be the other way around!! I went to check the website just before to post a link to the interview, but its either been removed or my PC just wont have a bar of it. Ian did say a lot of things 'for the record' in this interview, so if it has been removed it could be because of some of the things he said.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

He was there. I wasn't though, I was at HD for the Howden Ganley Festival, some brilliant racing, huge grids, spectacular cars and a helluva lof of noise, which is how we like it.

AGREE

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

There was a demo by a number of cars there (sorry I'm off topic) but there was an insane little mid-engine Peugeot 207 rally car (with Renault engine!) built from the ground up by a young Kiwi lad from Coromandel - there's an article on it and him here http://www.motorequipmentnews.co.nz/...s-rally-rocket

Very impressive feat for one so young - reminds me a bit of John Britten!

Don't know in which rally class you could compete with it though...?

The car is eligible for the overall NZ Rally Championship title

The guy is Alex Kelsey who I am proud to say I mentored and co-drove for for 3 years. During that exciting time I was involved in helping him become the youngest ever winner of a NZ Rally Championship round, watching him graduate through the NZ Motorsport Academy and also whilst on long touring stages and the like...blue-skying and helping visualize the current concept of the car he is using.

[Comal]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

There was a demo by a number of cars there (sorry I'm off topic) but there was an insane little mid-engine Peugeot 207 rally car (with Renault engine!) built from the ground up by a young Kiwi lad from Coromandel - there's an article on it and him here http://www.motorequipmentnews.co.nz/...s-rally-rocket

Very impressive feat for one so young - reminds me a bit of John Britten!

Don't know in which rally class you could compete with it though...?

Alex's car will run in the upcoming 2015 season in NZ Rally Champs overall 'class' - Cat 1. Is plenty of videos on Youtube and Facebook Kelsey Racing MC2

[Goat Boy]

Massively impressive feat when you read how he did it, great looking and sounding car. Brendon Hartley was there actually, soon to head off for his Porsche works drive when the season starts.

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

I kept an eye on everything this weekend thanks to Race Monitor. I was/am surprised that there has been no chat about TRS from the weekend just gone. Some of our kiwis did reasonably well from what I can tell, and I would have thought there would have been some discussion about the new car....but there you go.

Does anyone (Nigel??) know when the TRS races will be screened? I am assuming it will be on Sky, but I can't find anything yet.

From a TLX perspective, Bargs Camry must have been a rocket compared to the other 4. There was around 4-5 seconds covering the TLX's for qually. Maybe those cars don't have the setup brains that Bargs and his crew has. Obliterated would be the word I would use. But I still think that getting into the 25's for qually is pretty good. I cant for the life of me find any qually times for ST as the new website does not seem to have a decent archive, but can anyone remember what the top ST time was at Ruapuna in times gone by?

Anyway, weather seemed to be very dry from the TRS clips on both Tv1 and Tv3 (yes, both news programs actually did a little bit on them ), so dust would not have been a nice thing to deal with.

So Puke, you reckon there was only a 1000 or so spectators there? If so that is disappointing because, all the V8 stuff to one side for a moment, the TRS is the top open wheeler class we have and I would have thought that alone would have bought out a few thou'

A question for the NZV8 fans on here. I saw the results from R3 and it looked like a TLX (Bargs) and then 2 TL's. So does that mean that the podium would represent that, or do they have a separate podium for both classes that race within the same race?

Also, maybe the mods should move this discussion into the NZV8 thread as this thread was about the older NZ Touring Cars, not the current NZV8TC.

Hope your all well and handling the heat....crikey its hot today

The crown was sparse to say the least. On the Grass banks by the Speedway you had a few cars parked (Maybe 30) and further around a few more people and from where I was maybe 150 People (Grass Bank just past Start Finish line).
Didn't watch the last V8 Race ( After the other 2 didn't bother, we Finished packing up instead) but chatting to somebody at the airport Bargs won by miles after the Pit Stops.

The Weather was really nice, hotter on Sunday with a little wind to Cool things down a little.

With the TRS, cars are great, fast and modern of course. Its a pity that Toyota didn't flood the place with Free tickets, they must have known that nobody would turn up.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by pukekoheracer

The crown was sparse to say the least. On the Grass banks by the Speedway you had a few cars parked (Maybe 30) and further around a few more people and from where I was maybe 150 People (Grass Bank just past Start Finish line).
Didn't watch the last V8 Race ( After the other 2 didn't bother, we Finished packing up instead) but chatting to somebody at the airport Bargs won by miles after the Pit Stops.

The Weather was really nice, hotter on Sunday with a little wind to Cool things down a little.

With the TRS, cars are great, fast and modern of course. Its a pity that Toyota didn't flood the place with Free tickets, they must have known that nobody would turn up.

I spent 3 days at Ruapuna
Probably the smallest crowd I have ever seen at this level of event at Ruapuna.
The promotion was handled by a new promoter and from what the locals have told me advertising of the event was sparse.

[NZSTfan]

^^ that is a shame Bill. More so when you take into account it was the first TRS race with a whole new chassis. Has the v8 fued f******d things that badly? Or is this just a sign of the times? First sprint of the ST series, complete with TRS will be a telling time methinks.
Stu

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

^^ that is a shame Bill. More so when you take into account it was the first TRS race with a whole new chassis. Has the v8 fued f******d things that badly? Or is this just a sign of the times? First sprint of the ST series, complete with TRS will be a telling time methinks.
Stu

In my view TRS has never been a crowd puller, this has been proved in the past when they have run at stand alone events with no other major classes.

The package of classes was not earth shattering but probably as good as you can get in this day and age.

Weather should have been a big plus.

I would put it down to lack of promotion.

Why the sport doesn't just hand the championships over to the circuit owning groups to run and promote I don't know. Lets face it clubs like Canterbury, South Canterbury, Southland , Taupo, NZIGP etc are the most experienced motorsport promoters in the country.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

Why the sport doesn't just hand the championships over to the circuit owning groups to run and promote I don't know. Lets face it clubs like Canterbury, South Canterbury, Southland , Taupo, NZIGP etc are the most experienced motorsport promoters in the country.

That would be going back to the future again Bill, back to the pre Global Sports days when the rules and regulations were in the yearbook, no franchises, no registers, anyone with a compliant car could run, decent crowds, clubs conducted their own race meetings, reasonable entry fees charged and prize money was paid out to competitors

[socram]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

In my view TRS has never been a crowd puller, this has been proved in the past when they have run at stand alone events with no other major classes.

Agree. I hate to say it, but the plethora of one/two make/model racing at all levels, has taken most of the attraction out of the sport.

It doesn't matter how much you promote it, if it isn't attractive, people won't come along. It's a bit like 5 day cricket. The arch enthusiasts will sit through 5 boring days, claiming that it is the real pinnacle of the sport. When Packer started the one day cricket, it showed that even cricket could be more attractive.

The arch enthusiast in motorsport looking for future world champions and real talent will watch TRS, but sorry, in itself, it isn't attractive to the average punter.

The cost of promotion isn't cheap either. For every spend of $1,000 on advertising/promotion, you need another 500 people through the gate. You don't get much for $1,000 these days.

With events at many diversely situated tracks, by different promoters, motorsport is totally different from say rugby or soccer where there is an opportunity to sell a season ticket. Circuit calendars are rarely published in the non-motoring press, so people don't turn to a regular page in their newspaper just to 'see what is on'. Is there an app for what is on in motorsport for those who use these new fangled devices?

I'd visited or passed through Taupo for years after arriving in NZ, before I knew there was a race track there and even then, there were no signposts, so how many casual travelers miss out because the tracks are not signposted? Silverstone in the UK is permanently signposted from 50 miles away - even more so on British GP weekend.

Goodwood Festival/Revival - even when all tickets are pre-sold, is also well signposted. Even the grand old lady of the Auckland region, Pukekohe Park has no SH1 signage, so I think that part of the blame lies with the circuits and the local authorities - plus NZTA. Don't expect any support from NZTA though, as they were one of just two objectors to Hampton Downs in the first place...

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

That would be going back to the future again Bill, back to the pre Global Sports days when the rules and regulations were in the yearbook, no franchises, no registers, anyone with a compliant car could run, decent crowds, clubs conducted their own race meetings, reasonable entry fees charged and prize money was paid out to competitors

Hi carl
I am not suggesting that we go back into the dim dark ages, I'm not really into that.
What I am suggesting is that the skill level is there already with these groups successfully running events and promoting motorsport.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by socram

Agree. I hate to say it, but the plethora of one/two make/model racing at all levels, has taken most of the attraction out of the sport.

It doesn't matter how much you promote it, if it isn't attractive, people won't come along. It's a bit like 5 day cricket. The arch enthusiasts will sit through 5 boring days, claiming that it is the real pinnacle of the sport. When Packer started the one day cricket, it showed that even cricket could be more attractive.

The arch enthusiast in motorsport looking for future world champions and real talent will watch TRS, but sorry, in itself, it isn't attractive to the average punter.

I am not bagging TRS or one make classes. For some reason in NZ single seater racing one make or not only attracts the dedicated enthusiasts.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

Why the sport doesn't just hand the championships over to the circuit owning groups to run and promote I don't know. Lets face it clubs like Canterbury, South Canterbury, Southland , Taupo, NZIGP etc are the most experienced motorsport promoters in the country.

I'm pretty sure it was offered last year and this season to the circuit owning group Bill

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by raymond

I'm pretty sure it was offered last year and this season to the circuit owning group Bill

You may be right Crunch. I am not privy to Curcuit Owners Group info.
Since my recent retirement from SCCC management I am only putting my personal views forward based on my experience over many years of motorsport promotion. I would be surprised if all the clubs turned down an offer of running and promoting championship rounds unless there were to many fish hooks in it.
Also I thought Manfeild was doing its own thing with the GP?

[Goat Boy]

Sadly Bill and Ray are right, single seaters haven't pulled crowds in NZ for probably 30+ years. I remember Paul Radisich driving a Formula Pacific years ago and even then crowds were average. It's an enthusiast's sport, noisy tin-tops are the things that until recently pulled the crowds a bit more.

I think it would be good if we returned to the "dim, dark ages" actually.

[Goat Boy]

Cricket is great by the way - although even I would not sit through a 5-day test...

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Sadly Bill and Ray are right, single seaters haven't pulled crowds in NZ for probably 30+ years. I remember Paul Radisich driving a Formula Pacific years ago and even then crowds were average. It's an enthusiast's sport, noisy tin-tops are the things that until recently pulled the crowds a bit more.

I think it would be good if we returned to the "dim, dark ages" actually.

The trouble with winding the clock back to the 'dim dark ages' is we forget the bad things like competitor and spectator facilities and circuit safety just to name a couple.

[Goat Boy]

Well we're hardly going to dismantle existing infrastructure, are we? I was meaning the points raised by Ray specifically. Sounded good to me.

[socram]

Some of us have already wound back to the 'dim dark ages'!

Circuit toilets may have been a total disaster years back, but given a choice between dodgy toilets and 3m high catch fencing surrounding the place, I'll happily go backwards.

Making seat belts compulsory has made a huge difference to all levels of the sport, but it doesn't detract from the spectator experience, so not all progress has been detrimental.

Uncle Bernie has driven many of the general fans away by his admitted dislike of any branch of the sport other than F1 and circuits designed for F1 TV viewing and a spectator experience that is no longer involved or considered, as it is all about $$$$$$$$$'s and TV coverage on a world wide scale.

Scanning old race programmes, (mid 1950's) any programme was either Sports/GT cars or single seaters. Nothing else.

in the very late 1950's, the shift towards saloon cars started in real earnest and they would vary from very basic saloons, to out and out racers, but what they did have, was huge variety, spectacle, noise and innovation and some exhibitionist driving styles. Gerry Marshall and Baby Bertha in the UK still fire people's memories up rather more than the second tier F1 drivers, most of whom didn't stand out from the crowd and are totally forgotten except by the real enthusiasts.

Sorry to sound like a long playing record with the needle stuck, but some of those in power need to have a look backwards to see where the wheels started to fall off and do something about it, before it is too late.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by socram

but some of those in power need to have a look backwards to see where the wheels started to fall off and do something about it, before it is too late.

Hahahahahahahahahaha



Tui


That is all.