Goodwood 74th Member's Meeting

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed Simon. Last year Tiff's 29.5ish put us on third. This year we were seventh. On a similar time. Pole was three secs quicker than last year! Apologies to Mike Hoyer, who very kindly snapped me on the grid and in various other locations.

[The Fat Clerk]

Posses the question when is Historic, Historic?

[GORDON STREETER]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1MCBhNlu7I
Just found this !

[John Turner]

Simon, the problem I see that it's approaching modern performance from historic cars. The quickest of the Gp 7 cars were capable of lapping well under the 'in period' outright lap record. The cars in a number of the races are way faster, the track is faster, but the drivers, good though some are, are not the modern equivalents of Clark, Stewart or Hill are they, so the real difference is in fact even greater. The whole meeting was superbly well organised but the fact remains that there were far too many stoppages which had massive impact on timings and race lengths. Personally, I'd slow the whole meeting down and dispense with the quicker races. Afterall, the best races were the slower ones. I'd set a minimum lap time, say 1.25, and tailor the races to that. Sorry if that offends people but Goodwood is a great track and I want to see it survive as a place for racing historic cars not become yet another historic race meeting arms race.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Simon, the problem I see that it's approaching modern performance from historic cars. The quickest of the Gp 7 cars were capable of lapping well under the 'in period' outright lap record. The cars in a number of the races are way faster, the track is faster, but the drivers, good though some are, are not the modern equivalents of Clark, Stewart or Hill are they, so the real difference is in fact even greater. The whole meeting was superbly well organised but the fact remains that there were far too many stoppages which had massive impact on timings and race lengths. Personally, I'd slow the whole meeting down and dispense with the quicker races. Afterall, the best races were the slower ones. I'd set a minimum lap time, say 1.25, and tailor the races to that. Sorry if that offends people but Goodwood is a great track and I want to see it survive as a place for racing historic cars not become yet another historic race meeting arms race.

Sage words John, which I hope are read by 'those in charge'.

[Simon Hadfield]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Posses the question when is Historic, Historic?

The simple concept is - as it was so it should be - with some modern caveats for safety.
Sadly I think that ship has sailed.......

[The Fat Clerk]

Sadly I agree Simon.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1MCBhNlu7I
Just found this !

Wasn't going to go there but since Gordon's now put the link up, it needs to be said. This was first race of the day, and rather set the tone, unfortunately. Stephen Bond was incredibly lucky to escape with just a broken collar bone, and I understand that the circuit will put protection up now - you don't need much imagination to work out what it might have been like in the tunnel at the Revival.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

The simple concept is - as it was so it should be - with some modern caveats for safety.
Sadly I think that ship has sailed.......

Indeed, but that line in the sand you mentioned in another thread some years ago Simon, continues to be redrawn.

[John Turner]

OK, let's focus on some of the good stuff, because there was a lot of that as well. Saturday was excellent and there were some great cars in the races yesterday, too. The S F Edge race had some incredible machinery in it and the 3 races at the end of the day were excellent. I particularly liked the final race but then I would wouldn't I since I know most of the cars and their drivers. Sam Hancock was mighty in Ben Shuckburgh's equally mighty Cunningham, and Steve B-B has now really got to grips with that beautiful DB3S and a great drive from the back by young Richard Woolmer in Matthew Collings HWM Cadillac (not long back from it's long stay in NZ) who almost caught Steve. I could go on about the cars and drivers in that race. Then there was Will Nuthall who drove beautifully all weekend and won the Parnell Cup in the Cooper Bristol, and it was lovely to see the HWM of Jarrah Venables in that race briefly going so well until sadly retiring. Lots of great moments - what are yours? Also any pics would be welcome.

[RAP]

Without getting in to the ins & outs of specific incidents, it seems to me that everyone was very lucky there were not more serious consequences to the weekend. The Group 7 cars are too quick - they are exactly the sort of cars that caused Goodwood to close in 66.

Also, they must get slicker at dealing with the problems. Competitors & spectators pay too much to loose so much racing time from "everyday" incidents that afflicted 3 of the first 4 races.

The time it took to repair the barriers at Woodcote was extraordinary. There looked to be 2 working and 8 watching ....
[maybe it didn't matter because of the medical issues but we spectators were not to know that - there was much adverse comment in the grandstand]
Not a good advert for the "great British marshals".
RAP

[johngee]

This probably won't make me very popular but it seems no longer to be a 'members meeting' but has become a 'Revival Lite' and seems to be concentrating more on 'names' and demonstrations to the detriment of actual historic racing.
To be fair, I was only able to watch the truly excellent streamed coverage, so I'll wait for a reaction?

[John Turner]

I agree entirely John, it seems to have moved away from the lower key members meeting idea. I guess there was an inevitability about that given that Brand Goodwood has to be commercially viable and it has only enough race days allowance to have two meetings. However, less top end exotics and perhaps fewer 'names' behind the wheel would surely not lessen it's appeal. The cars are the stars aren't they, or am I wrong there?

The streamed coverage was truly excellent.

Now, I'm still hoping for some more positive stuff and some photos!

[john ruston]

The MM Meeting is probably the number three historic event in UK behind Revival and Silverstone Festival.

If people want the circuit to be bought up to the usual new safety standards the cost would be prohibitive therefore could lead to its closure.

JT's solution of organising races where the races have a best lap time of about 1.20/25.

You are racing historic cars on what is essentially a historic circuit presented as a typical 60's circuit.

It works for the IOM TT. If you don't like it return the invitation.Problem is some who do accept the entries do not understand what they are getting into.

We have discussed many times on here about the development of historic cars which by definition is obviously a nonsense.

U2 TC,,60's GT cars ,etc have all been screwed because of crazy development .Lotus Cortinas with fancy difs,200 bhp is stupid.


It's not going to change so people like me get disillusioned with the pastime.

If you do get involved live with it.

Nothing much changes with those approaching pension age,Simon H,Garry Pearson,Martin Stretton still being quicker than most as was the case twenty years ago.

Proves that all this development stuff was a waste of time.

Barry C being on pole and winning race ,now that is development for a pensioner.Must be on same stuff as Sharapova

[gary396]

Well this was the first Members Meeting that I've missed (of the modern era of course ) - so no photos from me this time I'm afraid John. I thoroughly enjoyed the streamed coverage although I didn't see Sunday morning's coverage and hence missed those delays. As said before, the coverage is excellent - it must cost a bit so I presume it's funded via ticket receipts etc etc.

The need for 'stars / celebs' is beyond me and probably many people - the racing of historic cars is enough albeit maybe some of the faster grids maybe need to disappear. The final three races on Sunday were excellent - that's the sort of thing we need to see. Demo runs, no matter what they are, just don't interest me but maybe they do it for some and are a useful filler.

I tend to prefer the MM to the Revival as the paddock access is better, the racing is just as good and it's less commercial / branded (although even that is changing).

I fear the 'horse has bolted' on the development of historic racing cars but that aside if they can get the balance of names / speed / grids right (just ease it back a bit and forget the razzmatazz, leave that for the Revival) then it will continue to be a success. Depends who advises his Lordship I suppose. Hope to be there next year!

[TimD]

I'm grateful to whoever put up the clip of the Lotus incident, if only to get it clear in my mind what we witnessed. We were on the pitlane roof about three people to the left of the cameraman, so that just captured exactly what we saw. With two exceptions.

Firstly, you only just see the start of the incident - the Cooper simply oversteered on the grass as so many have done before, only this time there was a Lotus in the way. This was just a combination of circumstances that turned a racing accident into a serious incident. I cannot make the assumption that over-eager driving played any part in it.

But secondly, the cameraman has understandably followed the Lotus to the tunnel. What the footage doesn't show clearly is where the wheel went. It cleared the heads of the blessed few who were in the disabled viewing platform and was only stopped by the white picket fence which separates the platform from the grass spectator area beyond.

I've seen worse - but not much worse - but it was Suzanne's first experience of a bad accident, and it quite deeply distressed her. Whatever measures are taken by the circuit and the organisers, we cannot reiterate enough to the general visitors - Motor Racing IS Dangerous.

Thanks for providing the link Gordon. It's actually been quite cathartic to be able to understand and explain the physics of what happened.

[Broadclystboy]

In relation to the grandstand dissatisfaction.

The Goodwood organisation really needs to get its act together. By the nature of things, there are likely to be delays for many different reasons and these need to be communicated to the paying punters. For example it was understandable why the gridwalk on the Sunday morning was cancelled - but this needed to be passed on to the people controlling access. All I got was 'not now, maybe this afternoon.'

The commentators have a difficult job under these circumstances but the same old cliches and 'hail fellow well met' jocularity grates in a very short time. They are the same you hear year after year at the MM and Revival. Again there needs to be a rethink and a bit more professionalism

In comparison to the concerns for the injured drivers, this last point is relatively trivial but again annoying. Late on Sunday afternoon a large number of spectators were trying to use the pedestrian tunnel but were held up whilst 'some very important people' could be arsed to get into their people carrier and drive through the tunnel. Frustration was exacerbated by the surly bouncers / minders stopping entry, and who did not feel it necessary to explain to people the cause of the delay. It would be naive of me to expect consideration for the common plebs who actually spend a lot of their own money to attend, but again it would be nice to be kept in communication

On the plus side - seeing the 2 1954 / 55 GP Mercedes, 8 Porsche 917s and the opportunity to chat to Richard Attwood. This sad punter / pleb will probably be queuing up for 75th MM tickets......

[Broadclystboy]

Originally Posted by RAP

Without getting in to the ins & outs of specific incidents, it seems to me that everyone was very lucky there were not more serious consequences to the weekend. The Group 7 cars are too quick - they are exactly the sort of cars that caused Goodwood to close in 66.

Also, they must get slicker at dealing with the problems. Competitors & spectators pay too much to loose so much racing time from "everyday" incidents that afflicted 3 of the first 4 races.

The time it took to repair the barriers at Woodcote was extraordinary. There looked to be 2 working and 8 watching ....
[maybe it didn't matter because of the medical issues but we spectators were not to know that - there was much adverse comment in the grandstand]
Not a good advert for the "great British marshals".
RAP

Motor racing would not exist in this country without the enthusiasm and dedication of those people prepared to marshal.

I may be wrongly maligning marshaling at the MM and Revival but it appears (my emphasis) that some posts are more involved in watching the racing than controlling it. This year at one corner (I won't name it) the marshals at the post on the exit were really on the ball, displaying the blue flag and making sure that lapped runners were aware of faster cars behind. At the entry corner post, I don't think I saw the blue flag waved at all. Ditto at some other places, and particularly noticeable at the 2015 Revival.

Apologies to all hard working marshals if I have got this wrong.....

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by johngee

This probably won't make me very popular but it seems no longer to be a 'members meeting' but has become a 'Revival Lite' and seems to be concentrating more on 'names' and demonstrations to the detriment of actual historic racing.
To be fair, I was only able to watch the truly excellent streamed coverage, so I'll wait for a reaction?

Absolutely right- in my opinion. And also right about the coverage, which is an object lesson on how it can be done.

[TimD]

On a brighter note, it was lovely to see Peter again after all these years (I think it's nine years all told, which just shows how out in the sticks we are these days). To be chatting over breakfast about Coupes des Dames in the sixties only to discover that the spectator standing next to you is Anne Hall's son - just what Goodwood is all about.

Just when I thought bargains were no longer to be had at Goodwood trade stands, secured a copy of Roger Labric's 1940s history of Le Mans for silly money, and in contrast took out a small mortgage to buy Clare Hay's new Bentley book.

Checked into the hotel on Friday night in Chichester to find all of Bonhams' staff dressed to the nines and about to go out on the town, which was fun.

Introduced new converts to the illicit joy which is VSCC specials racing. The Edwardians were absolutely the stars of the show in our camp and I think that's paved the way for some extra visits to Mallory and Cadwell later in the year. John R, I think I used this argument in favour of Goodwood as an event. It might be something of a show, but if it opens peoples' eyes to "proper" cars and racing, that can't be bad.

[John Turner]

Crikey Tim, where have you been, and two posts to boot. I still have that bag of programmes I put together many years ago that we were going to swap. Certainly good to hear from you and get your views.

[john ruston]

Are the Goodwood marshalls all from BARC?

[TimD]

Swaps is still on John - we've just got to work out an event when we co-incide!

Trouble is, when you are your own boss, and your business is retail, weekends get eaten up with commitments only too quickly.

Staying on thread, now that we are back, is there a website up yet with the full live streaming so that we can replay the good bits which we missed?

[johngee]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Are the Goodwood marshalls all from BARC?

They're on a 'list' of past participants and would appear to be a 'favoured few'. Mostly but not exclusively BARC.
Appears to be a closely guarded secret!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Wasn't going to go there but since Gordon's now put the link up, it needs to be said. .

You don't need to be so sensitive. Search Youtube and there's any number of "crash" videos put up by GRRC themselves, apparently. All with sensationalist headlines.