[BTCC] BTCC 2018 - Rounds 16, 17, 18 - Snetterton

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I agree that he had talent, and also that he did seem to be improving (in terms of concentrating on getting decent results).

You have to wonder what he thought was so bad about an already confirmed seat in a proven car, that he had to go looking at a team who were introducing something unproven?

I remember noticing at the time all the Motorbase press releases were very Tom Chilton-centric, i couldnt help think TOC 2010.
knowing Neal is always apparently retiring if you saw a potential door to be the established driver at the no 1 team of the last 15 years or so, i think you would be foolish to ignore it, especially if they actually approached him directly

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

I remember noticing at the time all the Motorbase press releases were very Tom Chilton-centric, i couldnt help think TOC 2010.
knowing Neal is always apparently retiring if you saw a potential door to be the established driver at the no 1 team of the last 15 years or so, i think you would be foolish to ignore it, especially if they actually approached him directly

Bias towards Chilton eh...

[gregc]

Going back to Cammish, just my opinion but to me it looks like he's overdriving the car in the first half of races - he always seems to start really strong but then fall away, as if he's killed the tyres.


It was really noticeable at Snett in race 3, going through Brundle his front brakes were bright red almost every lap, whereas with the rest of field it was only occasionally (usually when overtaking). All part of the learning curve, of course.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by gregc

Going back to Cammish, just my opinion but to me it looks like he's overdriving the car in the first half of races - he always seems to start really strong but then fall away, as if he's killed the tyres.


It was really noticeable at Snett in race 3, going through Brundle his front brakes were bright red almost every lap, whereas with the rest of field it was only occasionally (usually when overtaking). All part of the learning curve, of course.

I thought it was noticeable enough in Race 2, he was right on Sutton's tail in the early stages but then he fell back until Cook eventually caught and passed him.

[KA]

Originally Posted by gregc

Going back to Cammish, just my opinion but to me it looks like he's overdriving the car in the first half of races - he always seems to start really strong but then fall away, as if he's killed the tyres.


It was really noticeable at Snett in race 3, going through Brundle his front brakes were bright red almost every lap, whereas with the rest of field it was only occasionally (usually when overtaking). All part of the learning curve, of course.

I reckon there's something in that- he's obviously quick, but doesn't seem to be able to hold that together consistently over a race distance at the moment, which, as you suggest, gives the idea that he's caning the tyres- all part of the fwd learning curve, as you say. He'll get there- he's too good a driver not to.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by KA

I reckon there's something in that- he's obviously quick, but doesn't seem to be able to hold that together consistently over a race distance at the moment, which, as you suggest, gives the idea that he's caning the tyres- all part of the fwd learning curve, as you say. He'll get there- he's too good a driver not to.

Maybe this season will be too soon for him to challenge for titles, but he can definitely be a good foil for Neal if they opt to play that strategy.

Of the title contenders - TD might be in the best position to use both cars for the benefit of one.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Maybe this season will be too soon for him to challenge for titles, but he can definitely be a good foil for Neal if they opt to play that strategy.

Of the title contenders - TD might be in the best position to use both cars for the benefit of one.

Might be a daft question, but... is this the first season Cammish has raced FWD?

His career so far in single seaters and sports cars seems to me to be exclusively RWD (and rear-engined, in the main). Perhaps that explains the observations about front brake bias - maybe that's just how he likes to drive, but needs to even things out a bit?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

Might be a daft question, but... is this the first season Cammish has raced FWD?

'Cammish, who will be racing a front-wheel-drive car for the first time in his career, will line up alongside series veteran Matt Neal, and the pair will drive a new version of the Honda Civic Type R.'

We saw similar the other way when Jordan moved to BMW - it took him a while to adjust to RWD, and he was already proven in BTCC. So for Cammish to already be getting the results he is shows the talent he clearly possesses.

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Greem

Might be a daft question, but... is this the first season Cammish has raced FWD?

His career so far in single seaters and sports cars seems to me to be exclusively RWD (and rear-engined, in the main). Perhaps that explains the observations about front brake bias - maybe that's just how he likes to drive, but needs to even things out a bit?

As far as I know yes, it's his first time racing (Wikipedia says open wheel then GT's and Carrera Cup). I'm sure he'll get to grips with it, and when he does he'll be a force to be reckoned with.

[S griffin]

I think Cammish has done quite well. Remember he almost got pole in his first qualifying session in FWD, if it wasn't for him missing the weigh in! His time will come I'm sure, he's still learning, just needs to make sure when he's got the chance to win, to take it.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

It was always going to be a big step for Cammish, entering the BTCC with a FWD car and a completely new one to boot and in place of 3 Time Champ Shedden, he's definitely getting better with every meeting though and he deserves to continue in the BTCC next year.

[FIRE]

They should do more long races.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by FIRE

They should do more long races.

True

[S griffin]

Certainly Snetterton showed the machinery can last a few extra racing laps, so why not?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by FIRE

They should do more long races.

I'd gladly see a variety of race lengths, but I don't agree that btcc should verge into endurance territory.

So Snetterton I'd see as maybe 12,15 and 18 lap races. But I wouldn't be interested in anything over 40 minutes for a BTCC race except for special occasions.

[pimmy]

Races of 60 miles (just shy of 100km) are what professional touring car series should have. These used to be pretty standard, looking back at old DTM, ST-era JTCC and the feature races in BTCC, Superturismo & STW.

For whatever reason, BTCC has had shorter races than other championships of its type for most of its existence. ITV and their necessity to fill broadcasts with millions of adverts aren't exactly helping this at the moment. But at least we're not in the same situation as South Africa, where races barely last more than 15 minutes.

Looking at it realistically, I suppose it would be possible to run longer races at events where there isn't a full lineup of support races.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by pimmy

For whatever reason, BTCC has had shorter races than other championships of its type for most of its existence.

and as it’s still going so strong after 60 years then I guess they know what their audiences want to see

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'd gladly see a variety of race lengths, but I don't agree that btcc should verge into endurance territory.

So Snetterton I'd see as maybe 12,15 and 18 lap races. But I wouldn't be interested in anything over 40 minutes for a BTCC race except for special occasions.

Races less than 60 or even 90 minutes isn't endurance racing.

If we take last weekend as an example. Instead of three short races I am not against a two race format with a 12 lap sprint race and a 24 lap main race.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Races less than 60 or even 90 minutes isn't endurance racing.

If we take last weekend as an example. Instead of three short races I am not against a two race format with a 12 lap sprint race and a 24 lap main race.

Could not agree more. This is how it was in the early 2000's. I don't particularly recollect why it changed to the current format but it was in the time of small grids when I switched off...

[S griffin]

Because pitstops were not exciting, so they switched to shorter racing

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Races less than 60 or even 90 minutes isn't endurance racing.

If we take last weekend as an example. Instead of three short races I am not against a two race format with a 12 lap sprint race and a 24 lap main race.

I know that technically 'endurance' is a lot longer than F1 races for. But I still think that races longer than the current format should be the exception, not the norm.

At trackside, I have regularly heard comments about the Porsches to the effect of 'they're boring - the races are too long'.

People may long for the longer races of the past - but correlate that to viewing figures (trackside and broadcast) and then tell me which you'd prefer if you were putting money into the series?

The current format gives an audience that tunes in/out during the day, and results in many trackside viewers watching the support races. The format works well - why do we need to change it?

[Akrapovic]

I don't think they should include pit stops. Then you need every pit lane to be a sensible accommodation of every car, and costs will rise for the teams. I don't see what it would add either.

I kinda like this being a one-off longer race. I wouldn't have chosen Snet, as I think the current layout is crap, but it was a good event. I wouldn't want this every weekend.

I don't consider a race to be an endurance unless it's at least 3 hours. F1 races are sprint races, and they can go up to 2 hours.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

At trackside, I have regularly heard comments about the Porsches to the effect of 'they're boring - the races are too long'.

I think the issue there is that yet are Porsches. Many people think a ten minute race for them is too long.

[Akrapovic]

Porsche races are traditionally very dull. People will live with a dull race if it's done quickly. But Porsches are usually the worst race and the longest race.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Porsche races are traditionally very dull. People will live with a dull race if it's done quickly. But Porsches are usually the worst race and the longest race.

Agreed.

One thing I have been thinking about regarding the races this year, and particularly Snetterton - was R3 really that good?

How did it compare to the standard races?

Was it any more exciting than R1?

Have we seen racing at the other rounds, where we think they would be improved by being longer?

3 sprints just feels right at the moment (IMHO). Long enough for weight to play a part, long enough for tyre wear to be a factor. But not so long that ballast or tyres are the deciding factor.