Dome LMP Discussion

[prototype]

Thhis sounds like sour grapes to me. I don't think everyone screwed them over.

[gucom]

Hard to know what's fact, and what's just perceived as fact in these kinda cases... I seem to remember Lammers stating publicly that he was in debt with some business partners and that he wanted to pay off his debts before embarking on any new big adventures, he always seemed like a stand-up guy to me...

[LC2guy]

Surely an independant chassis manufacturer goes 1 of 2 ways. Build the car and sell it to teams to run, ( Lola ) or run it yourself ( oreca ) . If you run it yourself and prove its worth, then start selling them ( Pescarolo, Zytek ). Domes business model seems a bit strange. Build it, then lease it out to a small private team, but with conditions attached that normally only a Big Car Manufacturer would insist on ( No pay driver allowed, only Michelins etc ). Doomed to failure unless they adopt 1 of the 2 ways first listed i would think. Which is a real shame, because its one hell of a nice looking bit of kit.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

Surely an independant chassis manufacturer goes 1 of 2 ways. Build the car and sell it to teams to run, ( Lola ) or run it yourself ( oreca ) . If you run it yourself and prove its worth, then start selling them ( Pescarolo, Zytek ). Domes business model seems a bit strange. Build it, then lease it out to a small private team, but with conditions attached that normally only a Big Car Manufacturer would insist on ( No pay driver allowed, only Michelins etc ). Doomed to failure unless they adopt 1 of the 2 ways first listed i would think. Which is a real shame, because its one hell of a nice looking bit of kit.

Dome sold their cars earlier like Lola do (the S101 and S101,5) but the S102 is probably payed by Toyota (or ordered) and i expect there maybe is only 1 or 2 chassis. Therefor Dome want some kind of guarantee of performance, and that the car is not destroyed because of unprofessional behavior.
I completely understand Dome as the S102 is a special car.

[LC2guy]

But doesn't the statement they released say that they leased the S101 and S101.5 ??? They don't say they ever sold any atall. Also, if Toyota paid for S102, why all the big yen numbers needing to be re-couped ??

[CTD]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

But doesn't the statement they released say that they leased the S101 and S101.5 ??? They don't say they ever sold any atall. Also, if Toyota paid for S102, why all the big yen numbers needing to be re-couped ??

I know that there is a S101 here in Denmark, so they must have sold one or two!
Toyota never officially had anything to do with the car, but unofficially it's pretty likely that it was a toe-in-the-water project which was easy to pull the plug on.

[LC2guy]

OK, no worries on the S101 in denmark, i was just going by their statement which said all cars were leased eg. RFH cars . Hardly the same selling culture as lola though. Lolas life blood is selling cars. If Toyota paid for S102, probably they have now decided that the time isn't right to return ( looking at road car problems ) so Dome effectively have a free car to either go race with themselves, or sell. Looking to lease it IMO is not good practice. Which was my original point. By the way, is the one in Denmark the Den Blas Avis car ?? Does John Nielson still have it ?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

OK, no worries on the S101 in denmark, i was just going by their statement which said all cars were leased eg. RFH cars . Hardly the same selling culture as lola though. Lolas life blood is selling cars. If Toyota paid for S102, probably they have now decided that the time isn't right to return ( looking at road car problems ) so Dome effectively have a free car to either go race with themselves, or sell. Looking to lease it IMO is not good practice. Which was my original point. By the way, is the one in Denmark the Den Blas Avis car ?? Does John Nielson still have it ?

Well if it's a one-off, then selling it to only see it destroyed 2 months later, is a possible fear scenario (especially in Dome's mind), so there for by leasing it, you still have power over the car, where as if it's sold you basically have non.

The DBA Dome (Den Blå Avis) im not sure about, but i don't think it's in John's hands. It's more likely owned by Karsten Ree (former owner of the firm "Den Blå Avis") or one of the tracks managers in Denmark (Pr purposes)

[LC2guy]

I see your point, but aren't they rather acting like a big Car Manufacturer with setting all these conditions ? They are afterall, a privateer chassis builder. Why not run the car themselves ( or at least in conjunction with an experienced team ) if they don't want to sell it ? I really do think that leasing the car will just lead to a repeat of all the problems that they complain about in their statement. Can you think of another private chassis manufacturer that has adopted this route in the entire history of Le Mans ???

[The Real DMN]

Originally Posted by CTD

The DBA Dome (Den Blå Avis) im not sure about, but i don't think it's in John's hands. It's more likely owned by Karsten Ree (former owner of the firm "Den Blå Avis") or one of the tracks managers in Denmark (Pr purposes)

Do you mean this chassis?

http://www.racingsportscars.com/chas...to/02S-01.html

[CTD]

Originally Posted by The Real DMN

Do you mean this chassis?

http://www.racingsportscars.com/chas...to/02S-01.html

No .
Thats the Reynard/DBA/Zytec chassis, before that, DBA raced a Panoz and a Dome (not simultaneous) .

[Japanese Samurai]

Test report by Hidenori Suzuki(Sportscar-racing.net)
http://www.dome.co.jp/news/racerepor...ival_final.pdf

[The Real DMN]

Originally Posted by CTD

No .
Thats the Reynard/DBA/Zytec chassis, before that, DBA raced a Panoz and a Dome (not simultaneous) .

Ah, these two:

http://www.racingsportscars.com/chas...o/S101-01.html

http://www.racingsportscars.com/chas...o/LMP-002.html

[Japanese Samurai]

Sportscar-racing.net reported that Judd seems to negotiate with ACO to use GV5.5 in 2011.
They said that Judd had recommended Rebellion to use 5.5-liter engine in 2011.
Problem is, it is difficult for Judd user to change the engine.
However, it is easy for the Xytec user to change the engine compared with Judd.
It is interesting whether ACO admits the rule change.
http://www.sports-carracing.net/2010...ialedition.htm

[gwyllion]

Allowing the Judd 5.5 V10 would be an unfair advantage: higher torque and better reliablity (lower revs). That is part of the reason why the Zytek V8 has failed in the current LMP1 class.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Allowing the Judd 5.5 V10 would be an unfair advantage: higher torque and better reliablity (lower revs). That is part of the reason why the Zytek V8 has failed in the current LMP1 class.

Well the ACO has used equivalency regulations in the past (think LM2004: LM900s continued on until 2006 with weight and restrictor modifications). Unfortuantely I'm hearing that the ACO is not entertaining that idea this time. Therefore this will be the last time you will hear V10s and V12s at Le Mans. It's a shame the ACO never takes cost into account for all these regulation changes. This abrupt change will require new chassis in order to optimize the car to the new regulations.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Well the ACO has used equivalency regulations in the past (think LM2004: LM900s continued on until 2006 with weight and restrictor modifications). Unfortuantely I'm hearing that the ACO is not entertaining that idea this time. Therefore this will be the last time you will hear V10s and V12s at Le Mans. It's a shame the ACO never takes cost into account for all these regulation changes. This abrupt change will require new chassis in order to optimize the car to the new regulations.

Not only cost, but also it's legend.
The loss of the "free" engine choice, is something which will be missed dearly, and i'm afraid that manufactures could be scared away by this!

[ubrben]

Fastest Petrol LMP1 lap time this weekend in the Spa race was the 008 Signature Aston Martin.

This car is Dunlop-shod and contains a paying Gentlemen driver (actually Lady driver) in the form of Vanina Ickx.

The point was made above, quite rightly that Dome's approach is to use small private teams and demand OEM factory standards of them.

Ben

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Therefore this will be the last time you will hear V10s and V12s at Le Mans. It's a shame the ACO never takes cost into account for all these regulation changes. This abrupt change will require new chassis in order to optimize the car to the new regulations.

There where not many V10 or V12 group C cars, didnt matter then, does not matter now.

What does matter is the reduction in choice and the potential cost of redesigning already well developed cars.

However it could also be seen as a new direction and shakeup of the current order.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Nordic

There where not many V10 or V12 group C cars, didnt matter then, does not matter now.

What does matter is the reduction in choice and the potential cost of redesigning already well developed cars.

However it could also be seen as a new direction and shakeup of the current order.

Well the Toyota TS010, Peugeot 905 and Jaguars had V10 and V12.

But as you say yourself, it's that you have the choice to make the engines, and that you isn't limited by rules.

And since when have the V10's and V12's been criticized?.

[Japanese Samurai]

Very very sad news.
Dome announced the end of their Le mans project on their website.
If the auto manufacturer requests it, they have the intention that returns to LM.
http://www.dome.co.jp/column/dt_80.html

[Japanese Samurai]

The next project of Dome is original GT cars.
The project name is "ISAKU(Posthumous work)".

[AndrewF31]

That is a shame about the Proto future.

Hope they will be back in some sort, even a GT2 car would be nice but I'm guessing their GT plans are Super GT, Japanese style?

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

That is a shame about the Proto future.

Hope they will be back in some sort, even a GT2 car would be nice but I'm guessing their GT plans are Super GT, Japanese style?

The first work of Minoru Hayashi is a road-car named "Dome-Zero".
The following work will become a compilation of his life.
The outline of "ISAKU" that he announced in 2005 is a road-car of FR.
It is a car to obtain the homologation of FIA-GT.
http://www.dome.co.jp/special/images/ultimate_a.jpg
http://www.dome.co.jp/special/images/ultimate_b.jpg
http://www.dome.co.jp/special/special013.html

[FIRE]