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Old 16 Feb 2019, 22:47 (Ref:3884699)   #1
Terry S
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LINEAR SPRINGS AND TWIN SPRINGS

With the Philip Island testing this week there has been a lot of posts on forums of Supercars having this year to revert to "LINEAR SPRINGS' from "TWIN SPRINGS".

Can someone please explain in simple terms what these two concepts are?
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Old 17 Feb 2019, 01:45 (Ref:3884712)   #2
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Linear springs are pretty much just a one spring damper setup.

Twin spring is pretty much self-explanatory.
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Old 18 Feb 2019, 01:00 (Ref:3884936)   #3
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I am no suspension expert, but the rate of compression for springs on cars that only have one spring does not vary, hence linear.

When two springs are employed, that is no longer the case.

The image link below is of a model remote control drift car (I didn't know there was such a thing either!), but the principle is the same.

It shows the softer spring, marked with white, compressing before the harder yellow spring does, so the rate varies.

I imagine one advantage would be allowing more rear squat to allow more weight transfer to the rear under acceleration out of corners, and more grip, without hitting the bump stops.

I guess there are advantages at the front with turn in, or maybe getting the splitter closer to the ground for more aero downforce, or hitting curbs easier, but I am only guessing.

Not sure if the images are showing a different result depending on which spring is on the bottom:

http://d2yankidori.weebly.com/upload...496309.jpg?335
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Old 18 Feb 2019, 05:43 (Ref:3884950)   #4
Terry S
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Originally Posted by Chris - Melb View Post
I am no suspension expert, but the rate of compression for springs on cars that only have one spring does not vary, hence linear.

When two springs are employed, that is no longer the case.

The image link below is of a model remote control drift car (I didn't know there was such a thing either!), but the principle is the same.

It shows the softer spring, marked with white, compressing before the harder yellow spring does, so the rate varies.

I imagine one advantage would be allowing more rear squat to allow more weight transfer to the rear under acceleration out of corners, and more grip, without hitting the bump stops.

I guess there are advantages at the front with turn in, or maybe getting the splitter closer to the ground for more aero downforce, or hitting curbs easier, but I am only guessing.

Not sure if the images are showing a different result depending on which spring is on the bottom:

http://d2yankidori.weebly.com/upload...496309.jpg?335
Thanks Chris, greatly appreciated and now I understand
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Old 18 Feb 2019, 23:18 (Ref:3885119)   #5
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Originally Posted by Chris - Melb View Post
I am no suspension expert, but the rate of compression for springs on cars that only have one spring does not vary, hence linear.

When two springs are employed, that is no longer the case.

The image link below is of a model remote control drift car (I didn't know there was such a thing either!), but the principle is the same.

It shows the softer spring, marked with white, compressing before the harder yellow spring does, so the rate varies.

I imagine one advantage would be allowing more rear squat to allow more weight transfer to the rear under acceleration out of corners, and more grip, without hitting the bump stops.

I guess there are advantages at the front with turn in, or maybe getting the splitter closer to the ground for more aero downforce, or hitting curbs easier, but I am only guessing.

Not sure if the images are showing a different result depending on which spring is on the bottom:

http://d2yankidori.weebly.com/upload...496309.jpg?335
Not quite. It is possible to get a varying spring rate on a single spring.

What you are describing above is the action of a tender spring, normally employed to keep the primary spring seated on full droop (very low spring rate, normally compressed fully by the static weight of the car). It can also be used to play a more active role by giving it a higher rate, that would be effectively a spring with two rates (2x single (but different) rates).

It makes no difference if the 'tender spring' is on the top or bottom of the stack.

I don't follow Supercars, so I am not sure what they are/were doing, and exactly what a 'twin spring' setup would be in that context. The above is based on my understanding of setting up a suspension running tender springs on all four corners.
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 12:31 (Ref:3885234)   #6
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Linear springs are pretty much just a one spring damper setup.

Twin spring is pretty much self-explanatory.
Based on the responses itís not that self explanatory/
Care to explain?
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 13:18 (Ref:3885253)   #7
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Originally Posted by Lukin View Post
Based on the responses it’s not that self explanatory/
Care to explain?
A twin spring system is where two springs are in the damper system. (Such as a softer spring on the top, a firmer one below it)
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 20:23 (Ref:3885645)   #8
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A twin spring setup can be designed as a main spring plus tender spring, a main spring plus a light spring, or two main springs.

The first example has a very light tender spring (which is fully collapsed at normal ride height) which just stops the main spring from coming off its perch (and not returning correctly) when the car is jacked up.

The second example has two different rate springs where the lighter spring is not fully collapsed at normal ride height but can be tuned to collapse with a small compression and brings the second (heavy rate) spring fully into play.

The third option uses two different rate springs (neither fully collapse) which can give a variable spring rate (usually progressive).

You can get a single spring which has a variable rate. These have one spring rate at one position (ie 200 lb to compress 1 inch) and another rate at a different more compressed position (ie 300 lb to compress 1 inch).

A single linear rate spring has the same rate right through its range (from fully extended to fully compressed.

A variable spring rate (whether 2 springs or one) allows you to have a 'soft' spring for traction out of corners and a 'heavy' spring to handle bumps. A linear spring does not allow this compromise which affects lap time and/or tyre life.

I hope that explains the difference and how it impacts.
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Old 29 Mar 2019, 18:42 (Ref:3894155)   #9
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Running two springs setup with tender (softer) and main springs gives you also possibility to adjust droop, as with running only one stiff spring you usually have limited droop which in plenty situations takes out a lot of grip and stability. And by choosing proper length and rate tender you can achieve drop you prefer.
Very soft spring which should only hold main spring in place is usually called helper, tender is harder spring which interacts with main spring a little.
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Old 29 Mar 2019, 22:10 (Ref:3894184)   #10
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Reverting from twin to single springs has provided a great opportunity to nobble the Mustang.
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Old 29 Mar 2019, 22:51 (Ref:3894194)   #11
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Reverting from twin to single springs has provided a great opportunity to nobble the Mustang.
That's correct, Triple 8 have fallen back into the pack to some extent, they need to work harder and complain a bit less.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 00:29 (Ref:3894201)   #12
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and complain a bit less.

LOL!


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