Fireproofs worn with other items - RISKY OR NOT?

[GORDON STREETER]

Yes that's just what happened to Plato in the fire on the tele the other week. And I would assume he was wearing the best gear available.

[SidewaysFeltham]

Shortly after "Seppi" - Jo Siffert - was so sadly killed at Brands (I was there: never ever want to see anything like it again. I was standing next to Jenks and he walked away very dour-faced), The Jim Clark Foundation (I seem to recall??) found that the best protection was afforded by Nomex top suit: Nomex longjohns and roll-neck vest etc with cotton singlet and shorts.

Whilst big chunky watches might look cool in adverts, a distinct no no, like rings or indeed any other macho stuff like ID bracelets and neck chains when interfacing with machines.

They become caught and tend to rip off body parts.....................

[GordonG]

I thought the problem was that Plato was testing something that was supposed to be a road car, so he was wearing "civvies" and got quite badly burned. If he'd been wearing his full nomex kit he'd have been OK.

The fact that the car in question seems to have an appalling track record of reliability/safety is another matter...

G

[JimW]

But only slightly.

To add to the rings debate; the wearing of piercings under helmets, especially if no balaclava is worn, has all sorts of potential for damage.

If we have to remove a helmet from an unconscious driver, then piercings tend to become caught and can, if sharp, also become a hazard to those removing the helmet. Removing a helmet takes a considerable amount of force and the extra resistance due to something being caught is unlikely to be detected. Result? - torn flesh.

Best advice is either to remove or tape over.

Piercings other than under the helmet? - let's not go there.

Regards

Jim

[James Murray]

My uncle was ultimately fine and made a full recovery thanks. 4 broken ribs were more painful than the fire damage on his hands though. What he did say was that he remembers sitting amoungst flames for a while (he was in a single seater) and then the fuel tank exploding and not being able to breathe.

As a result of this accident I have had bag tanks fitted to both my cars!! I think this would have prevented the above happening at all and they should be made mandatory in all cars.

[GORDON STREETER]

I read that a young girl with a belly button piecing was seriously injured when the seat belt pushed it inside her in a crash ! I'd better not do up my crutch strap with my Prince Albert

[AU N EGL]

Doesn't the FIA have some strong recomondations for the removal of all body piercings and ear rings for safety, and in the event of an accident that safety personal can quickly cut away clothing?

[JimW]

I'm pretty sure the MSA either issued similar advice or promulgated the FIA instructions. However, a search of the Blue Book for 2008 does not find any such advice.

Regards

Jim

[steveng]

What do you people make of those fire-proof curtain things F1 drivers wore in the 70's that hung from their helmets? I seem to remember James Hunt always wore one. It would certainly cover the gap at the neck.
The advice about the metal watches is good, thanks.

[Eddy V]

I used to race with one of them after my fiery experience. Not bad those things, but a bit heavy and uncomfy.
I guess the fact that you had to put velcro tape on your helmet put most drivers off.
Looked cool though.

[AU N EGL]

Gaps at the neck?

Don't you ware a belcava tucked down under the collar of you suit?

[terence]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Gaps at the neck?

Don't you ware a belcava tucked down under the collar of you suit?

I would certainly hope so,is that not part of the reason for waring one??

[socram]

OK, most of what has been posted is pretty close to the mark. We manufacture FIA racesuits and supply the NZ A1GP team and many other top racers and rally drivers in NZ and Australia and a few in the USA and have also supplied a BTCC team.

1) Suits are fire resistant and NOT fire proof. As posted above, they will burn eventually. In theory, marshals with extinguishers should be on the scene fast enough to extinguish the fire before the driver has been BBQ'd. In practice, certainly over here, the marshals posts only have one extinguisher, and I would not think for one minute that they would be fast enough to be of much use, so the suit has to work.

2) The more layers, the better the insulation. Dragsters have an 8 layer suit, yet their fire crews don't have far to travel.

3) Although Nomex is nylon based, it is not necessarily the best material on the market - especially shiny Nomex, but the Americans are very protective of their own industry, so many rules are written for them... Getting acceptance for a non-Nomex suit in the states is not easy. Getting FIA approval is also very expensive.

4) The boil in the bag scenario is 100% correct. Flame resistant does not mean heat resistant so heat will ultimately transfer to whatever is underneath. That includes perspiration and metal watchstraps, rings etc.

5) Racers should ideally dry their suits between races but if this is not possible, wearing a dry 100% cotton tee shirt is second best. Racers poncing around the paddock with the top off and tied around the waist are probaby better off than those sweating into it on a hot day.

6) Adding sewn on badges using nylon or polyester thread is plain dumb.

7) Personally, I'd be very pleased if gloves were compulsory (currently NOT compulsory in some countries).

8) Under no circumstances should drivers wear nylon or polyester garments (including socks) under a race suit. Wool and cotton are flame resistant up to a point, but what they will not do is melt. Nylon and polyester melts with disasterous results if it adheres to the skin.

9) The gap between racesuit and neck should obviously be bridged.

10) Foam neck supports and even some race seats and many production cars may contain foam that is not only inflammable, but nigh on impossible to extinguish. So much so, that the local foam manufacturer's raw foam store has no sprinkler system and no windows and the fire service would not be able to extinguish a blaze...

11) Common sense should prevail at all times.

I do not claim to be an expert but fabric technology is always moving forwards so don't specify Nomex (brand name) when you mean fire resistant.

There are other issues such as resistance to abrasion, colour fastness etc.

Hope that helps...

[midgetman]

Useful info socram, tnx.

>>>>>>>>>>.Getting acceptance for a non-Nomex suit in the states is not easy

not only there, but in the minds of users worldwide. We tried suits out of other materials but there was huge resistance. Some governing bodies of the sport in the UK even specify "Nomex" - it's like "Hoover" for vacuums or "Biro" for ball-point pens.

This is changing though. Consumers have become more savvy and more open to new ideas in the last few years.

[terence]

Yes thanks Socram,very usefull,I wonder what a Carbon-X suit would cost,going by the cost of my underware,I'd of thought pretty prohibitive.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Yes that's just what happened to Plato in the fire on the tele the other week. And I would assume he was wearing the best gear available.

Plato wasn't wearing any gloves...

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I wonder what a Carbon-X suit would cost

On average 450 to 500 Pound, Terry.

[Mr.Jingles]

Originally Posted by socram

OK, most of what has been posted is pretty close to the mark. We manufacture FIA racesuits and supply the NZ A1GP team and many other top racers and rally drivers in NZ and Australia and a few in the USA and have also supplied a BTCC team.

*SNIP*

Hope that helps...

It did, cheers for that.

[AU N EGL]

in the states we have some Proban Treated fires suits that have a FIA rating so they are accepted.

It is the FIA rating that is looked at, not if it is Nomex ( Dupont Brand Name IIRC) that is looked for.

The other challange is many suits just look terable. They are baggy in some body parts and dont fit well in other body parts. Yes I know a custom made suit does the trick.

I do change undershirts all the time and have several Nomex and one Carbon-X ( Cool suit ) tops. I hate sweat wet undershirts.

[midgetman]

>>>>>>>>>in the states we have some Proban Treated fires suits that have a FIA rating so they are accepted

Really? I thought they couldn't get it, but I know they have SFI homolog whcih is different. Can you PM me a link? TIA

[terence]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

On average 450 to 500 Pound, Terry.

Not a lot more than I paid for a three layer then Eddy

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by midgetman

>>>>>>>>>in the states we have some Proban Treated fires suits that have a FIA rating so they are accepted

Really? I thought they couldn't get it, but I know they have SFI homolog whcih is different. Can you PM me a link? TIA

I am out for the evening. Will get you some links in My morning time.

Might be SFI rated. hmmmm

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by midgetman

>>>>>>>>>in the states we have some Proban Treated fires suits that have a FIA rating so they are accepted

Really? I thought they couldn't get it, but I know they have SFI homolog whcih is different. Can you PM me a link? TIA

PM sent

[LYNX]

The more layers the better. In a single seater (plus other designs) with a rear-engine crashing can involve damage to the pipes carrying coolant and oil through the cockpit resulting in full thickness burns from scalding, even if the car does not catch fire. Needless to say metal items would increase the heat tansferance.

[AU N EGL]

Here in the States for SCCA and NASA we have a three layer min requirnment.

2 layer Nomex Suit and one of Nomex (or other SFI approved) underware