Nomex Underwear now Compulsary at ALL Irish events.

[av8rirl]

Originally Posted by Motormouth

Next thing they'll be making myself and Matt make wear Nomex in the commentary box!!!

I didn't know nomex was able to stop the smell of sh1te talk!!!!

[AU N EGL]

Hey guys hate to bust you bubbles, but when we stated to use the HANS we had to change to HANS compatible harness systems too.

a 3" wide shoulder strap is too wide for a HANS. HANS compatible shoulder harness are 2" wide over the HANS shoulder support, then widen to 3" down the chest to the cam lock.

[JohnD]

Not only HANS, but maybe double harness to stabilise the HANS, new seats and possibly new helmet designs (already on stream for young kart drivers). See new glossy from the FIA: http://www.fiainstitute.com/document...for_Safety.pdf
(NB - It's a 3.75Mb download)
John

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

a 3" wide shoulder strap is too wide for a HANS. HANS compatible shoulder harness are 2" wide over the HANS shoulder support, then widen to 3" down the chest to the cam lock.

No, those 3-2-3 belts are not really needed for Hans. The normal belts will work without a problem.
Most Hans systems have now been slightly "modified" for the wider belt.
See the Hans thread for more details.

[silver bullet]

What happens when British Championship events go to Mondello are we working to MSA rules or Motorsport Ireland ones.
Will I have to get a new race suit and set of undies, for one event?

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

What happens when British Championship events go to Mondello are we working to MSA rules or Motorsport Ireland ones.
Will I have to get a new race suit and set of undies, for one event?

The chances are that you will run under your own rules, same as if we went to the UK.

They wont get that sticky over one event. They usually let drivers race and tell them to get whatever it is before their next event, which of course wouldn't affect you!

PS Are you or your class travelling over this year?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

No, those 3-2-3 belts are not really needed for Hans. The normal belts will work without a problem.
Most Hans systems have now been slightly "modified" for the wider belt.
See the Hans thread for more details.

OK I had to use the 3-2-3 belts when I got my HANS. That was almost 2 years ago.

[ss_collins]

One comment"fire injuries are pretty rare these days",is your fire extinguisher empty?

nope brim full - never been set off. In my time in this sport attending a rather huge amount of events I've seen a lot of different classes and ways of doing thing - shorts tshirts bars in the pit lane and no barriers in Barbados, to super efficient hyper professional everyone in nomex in the pits in Japan. In ten years I have only been at one event where there has been a fire of any risk to a driver - at Le Mans last year when a WR turned into a fireball.

I'm aware it happens but to raise overalls and fireproofing measures seems to be an odd move and way ott.

[AU N EGL]

It only takes ONE fire, to ruin motorsports for everyone. Especially if someone is burned that could have been prevented.

Watch this crash: Buring Ferrari

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

It only takes ONE fire, to ruin motorsports for everyone. Especially if someone is burned that could have been prevented.
[/URL]

I have to say I never understand this arguement. We all know motorsport is dangerous you can't make it completley safe. But it seems that it is only in car events that you get the attitude that the next accident will finish the sport you don't see the road bikers after an huge accident saying "well thats the end of the sport". God knows if they did then the TT would have be cancelled 10 times over.

Many more people get seriously injured falling of the back of horses every
year than all motorsport events added together and you don't see articles everywhere looking for it to be banned !!!.

Anyway if they where so worried about the risk of fire related injuries then they would never have let BCF be banned until a proper real alternative was found.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Roundy Mooney

I have to say I never understand this arguement. We all know motorsport is dangerous you can't make it completley safe. But it seems that it is only in car events that you get the attitude that the next accident will finish the sport you don't see the road bikers after an huge accident saying "well thats the end of the sport". God knows if they did then the TT would have be cancelled 10 times over.

Very true. and I for one never understand the arguement about any sort of change is not good nor safe. or the idea "we have done it this way for 30 years and it never happened, so why change now?"

Or are some ppl just cheap ?

[leonidas]

It all comes down to reasonable risk assessment. Outcrys over safety only really come when people are obviously negligent, bystanders get hurt or a top star gets killed.

People should not be allowed to take reckless risks with their own safety but nor should they be treated like children incapable of making rational choices about their own undergarments. You're much more likely to get killed driving home than by fire on the racetrack.

[JohnD]

Burning Ferrari.
There's a second part to that video, that I can't link to and don't want to. The whole thing is disgraceful. No one seems to know what to do.
Eventually, the Ferrari driver falls out of his door and rolls over away from the car. A 'marshal' (quotes because this guy should be drummed out of the corps) rushes over and seems to think that he must get the driver on his feet, head lolling, no regard for the many injuries he probably has.
In fact, I believe that the Japanese driver survived, badly burnt, sued the Japanese circuit for its gross mis-managment of safety issues, and won. Don't know how relevant that is to the current matter, and that crash was in the '90's (?) but m'learned friends could argue that drivers must take every care to protect themselves, and so mitigate the responsibility of an inept circuit management.

JOhn

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JohnD

but m'learned friends could argue that drivers must take every care to protect themselves, and so mitigate the responsibility of an inept circuit management.

JOhn

John
I agree. We as club/ semi-professional racers should take our own personal responsibilties and saftey very seriously. Granted Driving on public highways in rush hour traffic is more dangorious, but that is not relevent to motorsports.

Motorsports sactioning bodies set standards for saftey. If we dont like the standards, take it too the sanction bodies.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Motorsports sactioning bodies set standards for saftey. If we dont like the standards, take it too the sanction bodies.

Yes, I've no problem with that. However in practice we have to do what the FIA tell us. The FIA are driven by the fear of litigation from compensation parasites and the health and safety brigade. Everything is taken to extremes and it ends up with even the local clubman competitor having his underpants inspected. I'm just putting in a plea for a little common sense...

[midgetman]

Actually there was a fire in an Impreza at Combe last May, just as I walked out of the race shop having had my extinguisher refilled. Felt kinda smug.

Car hit the barrier and a hi-press line popped off. Nowt serious thanks to on-board extinguisher but it concentrates the mind.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Yes, I've no problem with that. However in practice we have to do what the FIA tell us. The FIA are driven by the fear of litigation from compensation parasites and the health and safety brigade. Everything is taken to extremes and it ends up with even the local clubman competitor having his underpants inspected. I'm just putting in a plea for a little common sense...

I agree. And I am a very individulistic person as well. Wearing a 2 layer FIA suit plus nomex or carbon-X underware inside a 130* cockpit, and race fuel exhuast fumes with full face helmet waiting for green flag to drop from a standing start, is not my idea of comfort.

Even with a cool suit it is still bloody hot.

But those are the rules. Common sense and rules is an oxymoron. Just like politics and common sense.

[Eddy V]

I have written it before here on the forum, I have been burned once and believe me when I say that this is not funny at all.
Okay, it was a freak thing and before "proper" racing suits were available. I was wearing nomex underwear, single layer suit, balaclava and gloves.

Apart from the horrible pain the first few weeks and many, many weeks away from work (and a not having a very happy boss at that moment), it made me very aware of safety issues.

Never raced again without the proper kit.
Can't really understand people willing to risk those sorts of injuries because of a little bit (?) of extra money for some proper racewear, or helmet.

Some people rather run a 600 bhp state of the art car and wear a t shirt and a cloth cap in the process.

Possible loss of income can be very persuading.

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Roundy Mooney

Anyway if they where so worried about the risk of fire related injuries then they would never have let BCF be banned until a proper real alternative was found.

Unfortunatley thats an EU directive. Motorsport Ireland tried to get a dispensation to allow its use but were turned down flat. I'm afraid its washing-up liquid for now!

[Chris Y]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

It only takes ONE fire, to ruin motorsports for everyone. Especially if someone is burned that could have been prevented.

Same could be said for just about anything.

I.e. "It only takes ONE axe-wielding maniac to ruin everyone's day, so from 2007, chain-mail is mandatory for all drivers"

And statistically there have been more murders this year than motorsports fires.. So look out for that ruling

Seriously though, and back to the topic at hand, I can see a need for better overall (no pun) fire safety when it comes to rallies, where you may be miles from the nearest marshal, but in circuit racing there's a fire extinguisher post every couple of hundred yards. That's not to say the rules on overalls should be completely relaxed, but I think they were fine the way they were! (assuming the Irish rules were broadly similar to those in the UK at the moment)

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

but I think they were fine the way they were! (assuming the Irish rules were broadly similar to those in the UK at the moment)

They were the same, almost word for word!

I think the old Irish rules were fine. 3-layer nomex or 2-layer with undergear is fine as a basic requirement. After that its up to each drivers individual preference. There is no need to MAKE drivers wear the absolute maximum amount of protection, their shoud be a reasonable level required and then leave it up to the individual.

[AU N EGL]

Chain-mail? Ok I like that idea. Can I use the Ben Hur hubs too ??

[VFR]

Just looked at the 2006 green book, regarding the FIA1986 standard not being allowed for 2007, it was stated that this standard would be valid until 31.12.07 for overalls, long underwear, balaclavas, socks and shoes and 31.12.09 for gloves. Havent seen the 2007 green book yet so cant comment on the change in layers rule.

[WJM]

Isn't this a bit harsh for Rallycross/Autocross though? They only drive 4 or 5 laps a time with a couple of cars, so they do not carry a lot of fuel. Also in case of an accident the race is immidiately stopped so marshals can respond swift and safe. Yes it can always happen, but does that extra layer really make that much of a difference?

[midgetman]

It's nowt to do with the extra layer giving more protection is it? All the Irish ASN has done is remove the waiver for 3-layer overalls to be worn without underwear, and strictly apply FIA rules. FIA accepts 2- or 3-layer suits, but all must be worn with underwear.