Increasing participation in motorsport

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Suze

Was that the same person whose email was at the end of the survey, David? I also emailed as an aside but haven't heard anything, yet...

Yes it was, PM if you want more details eg snailmail addy.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Biff

Many have tried, some have managed it, some thought they had managed it, but now are on holiday for a long time.

If anyone has a foolproof method, tell all of us will you !!

You sponsor my car and write me a check, I sponsor your car and write you a check. Now the two enties are not related.

[Biff]

Of course, simple. Make it a really big cheque and we'll be able to go proper racing then.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Biff

Of course, simple. Make it a really big cheque and we'll be able to go proper racing then.

SUre no problem writting you a BIG check. Just dont go and cash it.

[Al Weyman]

DOnt work like that in the UK, They have a little rule about sponsoring something you have an interest in, in fact I have just had a meeting with the vat people and they are telling me I cant even claim for petrol in my road car, well I can but if I do I have to pay £300 per year for the privalige.

[Dennis.Doyle]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

DOnt work like that in the UK, They have a little rule about sponsoring something you have an interest in, in fact I have just had a meeting with the vat people and they are telling me I cant even claim for petrol in my road car, well I can but if I do I have to pay £300 per year for the privalige.

Funny you should say that - on another forum I asked for opinions on whether the VAT man would spot the difference between a set of A40s & a set of CR28s as a legitimate business expense. The best defence suggested was to say that I was such an awful driver that I needed the softer compound to contribute to road safety.

Note to all CSMA members reading this - I don't fiddle my tax - honest guv

[ss_collins]

frankly the msa area joke in this - theres quite a tale to tell but its for the future. I have real ground to suggest that either the MSA are incompetant or that they are not really that interested in the grass roots.

The departure of Bruce Goddard is a disaster for the sport

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

frankly the msa area joke in this - theres quite a tale to tell but its for the future. I have real ground to suggest that either the MSA are incompetent or that they are not really that interested in the grass roots....

OH! I had never realised they might be mutually exclusive

[pmoloney]

Lots of great debate here.. I just filled in the questionnaire and as someone who has just decided to take a year out from racing in favour of the odd track days it's a real thorn in my side as I built my cars to go racing and want to race. I WANT to race, but just can't justify the expense.

What really bugs me is that I am one of those guys willing to put the effort in to win and maintain sponsorship. Let's face it, across the board of "thriving" series thats where the money in motorsport comes from, but until it's an attractive proposition for companies to sponsor grass roots motorsport, it is nearly impossible to gain financial sponsor support!. There's a simple cause and effect linkage to get motorsport going again in my head which I suggested in my questionnaire... (read "=>" as "leads to")

Reduce costs to compete => removal of core reason for new competitors not starting up (imho) => Increased media/spectator attractiveness due to bigger grids, wider range of talent, better racing etc => Increased publicity, Better quality events, => Increased value for commercial involvement => Increased opportunity to receive sponsorship (racers, clubs and circuits) => Reduced impact on the racer's own wallet... 'cost' of participation through commercial sponsorship, prize money, reduced fees => Increased attractiveness for new racers.

There's a full cycle here where reduced cost is paramount...but the pump needs to be primed and that I think can come from one of two places, reduced cost to complete or increased media coverage in order to attract commercial involvement. Having said that, drivers have a huge part to play in capitalising on a ripe market for gaining sponsorship...there'd no point moaning in it being expensive if companies were happy to sponsor. The smart racers will capitalise on this coverage and market themselves better to gain the sponsorship to reduce their cost of participation.

Look at all the countries where motorsport is huge... USA, Australia for example... even in comparison to our UK based big series, the amount of commercial involvement is massive and this says to me that the package is attractive enough for companies to invest.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by pmoloney

Look at all the countries where motorsport is huge... USA, Australia for example... even in comparison to our UK based big series, the amount of commercial involvement is massive and this says to me that the package is attractive enough for companies to invest.

It does, but it does not start at the Grassroots Level. It starts at the Top, with NASCAR. With out NASCAR and ALMS, the Grassroots motorsports of SCCA and NASA would not see sponsorship.

Most of the grassroots sponsor are in the form of Contigancy. You put the sponsors sticker or decal on your car, and if you place in the top three of a national race with at least 5 other competitors, then you reciece something. In most cases discounts on products and in some cases money.

Reducing the initial costs is not really possible, IMHO, except going to a 'spec' series. Where everthing is Standardized or "Spec." Example: Spec Miata, Spec Racer Ford, Spec Racer Reneut, Spec E30, Forumula Ford, and so forth.

Plus race orgainzations with the Contigancy sponsors do give discounts to racers to purchase their products. Many times this great, some times the discounted products are not what you want to use.

Tires are almost never discounted, unless you are a great driver and promotor of product, they maybe.

Bigger HP cars normally cost more to race then HP smaller cars. Example in SCCA or NASA a Corvette, Mustang, Camero, Porsche, BMW runs ~ $3,000 per weekend, prep, travel, one set of new tires, fuel etc, vs a Miata runs $1,500- $2,000 per weekend. Travel to and from the race is a big bit of that budget. vs Grand AM Koni Challage runs $8 to $10,000 per race weekend. SpeedWorld Challange ~$35- $40,000 per weekend. and it just goes up and up

I think just promoting and advertising grassroots motorsports to younger generations in areas, that the late teen and 20 somthing crowd watchers or reads is a good start.

I just wonder how do ppl think Costs can be reduced? I think we would all like to see some specific examples of how and what can be reduced?

20 gallons ~ 80 liters of fuel is the same price for a road going car as it is for a race car, with the same octane ratings.

[midgetman]

Two very well-reasoned posts.

IMHO grassroots motorsport is very difficult to sell as a commercial package on its own, it relies a lot more on old-fashioned patronage but that's a separate thread.

Commercial involvement in motor sport MUST be a 2-way street. To do their bit the teams have to spend what it takes to win and impress/retain their sponsors. This drives up costs, if you want to win you have to spend more than the opposition (sweeping generalisation to make a point). Thus commercial involvement could be argued as a BAD thing for motor sport - I mean at strategic level not for individuals.

Increase participation? It's a marketing job where the local motor clubs should be supported by the MSA to draw in the track day/drifitng/cruising crowd. We all know that this sport is as addictive as narcotics - get them taking part in Solos and before you can start the watch there's increased grids or rally fields..........

Article in Motorsport News this week raised the spectre of the Road Traffic Act being used to clamp down on "non-authorised" motor sport events. This is EXACTLY the kind of activity that will send drivers into the "mainstream". At the moment there's so much motor sport available that you don't need an MSA licence for, why bother? Ovals, karting, trackdays, grasstrack - stop them operating and where is there to go but "our" branches?

[midgetman]

SS Collins wrote:

>>>>>>>The departure of Bruce Goddard is a disaster for the sport

Who's he? And why is it a disaster?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Increase participation? It's a marketing job where the local motor clubs should be supported by the MSA to draw in the track day/drifitng/cruising crowd. We all know that this sport is as addictive as narcotics - get them taking part in Solos and before you can start the watch there's increased grids or rally fields..........

I agree. Start ppl with the track day / drifting ( very popular) / crusing group and build up to autocross and eventually W2W racing.

Adictive ? Heck a crack cocain habbit would be less adictive and cost less too.

[HiRich]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Increase participation? It's a marketing job...

midgetman has, after five pages, hit the nail on the head. Marketing is the key word here.
The problems, and opportunities, are text book marketing issues. Not advertising, not event promotion, but proper, grass roots marketing theory:
- Defining the customers
- Understanding their issues and their desires
- Resolving their issues, and appealing to their desires.
The same priniciples apply whether you are selling race entries or cappucinos.

There is no single magic solution for motor sport - 2 or 4-wheeled, amateur or professional, circuit, speed or off-track. The complete solution has to be a large array of simple initiatives - each tackling specific target markets and issues - with a couple of universal access/hub activities to tie it all together.

A quick example: in a month or so, we will have our first black Grand Prix driver, who's likely to do rather well. This could (and I think will) be the catalyst for a lot of black British guys to consider motor sport as a pastime (to improve on the current grand total of...err... SS Collins!). What better time could there be for a publicity and introduction scheme? One small scheme targetted at a very specific demographic. Not the only initiative, but one of several targetted at different groups (not necessarily on racial, gender, or other physical definitions).

It's a subject I know an awful lot about, having studied in great depth from several angles, and I keep coming back to the same conclusions. When I presented it to certain major players, the reaction was blank faces ("like a dog who's just been shown a card trick") or greed ("how can I make money out of this at somebody else's expense"). Perhaps I should dust off my old files..

[AU N EGL]

How many ppl on this post ( thread ) actully take to the grid on a regular basis? And those that dont race, yet spectate, why dont you get into racing, as a driver, sponsor, or crew member on a team?


I take the grid, and would love to have a voluntee come with me. I cant pay them a wage but can pay their expenses in exchage for an extra pair of hands and share dirving to and from the event.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by HiRich

It's a subject I know an awful lot about, having studied in great depth from several angles, and I keep coming back to the same conclusions. When I presented it to certain major players, the reaction was blank faces ("like a dog who's just been shown a card trick") or greed ("how can I make money out of this at somebody else's expense"). Perhaps I should dust off my old files..

We can study and offer soultions to others all the time.

My question is, Do you have your OWN team, and would you put an unknown or average racer in YOUR car, just to get at a target auidance?

No offence, sir dont present "to certain major playes" and do it yourself and SHOW them.

[midgetman]

Sitting back and thinking about this again......is this thread about incresing participation in motorsport or just increasing participation in "our" kind of motorsport?

There are so many opportunities for participation these days, that I think that the sport as a whole has never been stronger. Indoor karting, drifting, cruising, track days, social runs, classic car rallies etc etc can all be done without the time, money and commitment that "official" racing & rallying require. It's still enjoying yourself driving, just not in the traditional style. Perhaps circuit racing &/or rallying as we know it just doesn't float the boat of today's youth?

[pmoloney]

Good point midgetman... I was coming from the perspective of increasing participation in circuit racing which is where I participate but I feel is one of the weaker areas.

HiRich - I wondered if you might respond once marketing was mentioned.. you might recall helping me out back in 2004 with lots of ideas on how to gain sponsorship... lots of great advice and some of which did actually work for a bit of support during '05 Good to hear from you.

[R59]

Sponsorship - grrrr. Between my wife and I, we've spent the last three months sending out proposals, writing to companies, and phoning around to try and get backing to run in one of (some will disagree but pah!) the countries top championships (the BRSCC said so, so it is!) - the SCSA V8 Trophy. We've had lots of letters back praising our proposal, how good it was, and if they were interested in motorsport as a marketing tool, we would have been in luck. But alas, to date, we've managed to achieve one 6x4 garden shed, and a meal for 4 at a major retaurant chain (to the value of £40!).

No matter how good or shiny your proposal is, and how cleverly you work it, you have no chance unless you personally know the right people!! The old boys network is where 99% of sponsorship goes.

How can we change that?

Positive marketing of motorsport - ALL motorsport. The mass media needs to be brought on-side, and that's the job of the MSA to lobby them, woo them, and get the sportsdesk editors interested in covering it.

When I get stuff shipped in from the state's, it's often wrapped in newspaper, and I read them!!! In the sports pages of many newspapers, it's not uncommon to find the results and reports from their local circuit, be that a dirt oval, or a small road course. This is their daily newspapers.

When we get the results and reports for the 750mc races at Mallory Park in the back of the Times/Sun/Star/Sport(!), we've cracked it. Until then, they might give a column inch to the British GP if we're lucky, but should David Peckham pick his nose, it's 3 pages of EXCLUSIVE - Beckham's bogeys are green!

I haven't filled in the survey yet, I looked at it quickly, and thought that it's been written by someone paying lip-service to the sport. I will go back, I will fill it in, and I may well write a diatribe to the survey company as extra comments.

[Biff]

Racing 59. This was part of my reasoning earlier (post No33) about shifting funding to the events first. With more money going to fund the event it will be bigger and MSV etc., will have funds for better marketing and the sport might start to get rated better. When this happens the OBN starts to get left behind as advertising for the individual starts to make commercial sense.

[R59]

I like the idea of betting at the circuit. If anything, it might encourage those with the socially unacceptable gambling addiction into our circuits to fill the grandstands, and more importantly, the coffers!

Rob.

[Biff]

It seems to work with the GG's

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by racing59

I like the idea of betting at the circuit. If anything, it might encourage those with the socially unacceptable gambling addiction into our circuits to fill the grandstands, and more importantly, the coffers!

Rob.

Personally I would not worry too much about the ppl with gambling addictions, but the bookies who might cause races to be fixed.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by racing59

No matter how good or shiny your proposal is, and how cleverly you work it, you have no chance unless you personally know the right people!! The old boys network is where 99% of sponsorship goes.

How can we change that?

Proposals aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The best proposals are writting on pub napkin over a drink or two.

[ss_collins]

Originally Posted by midgetman
Increase participation? It's a marketing job...

which is sort of what bruce was tasked with as well as increasing participation

http://www.msauk.org/site/wbs/news/V...ue&chapter=262