Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[gustavobamba]

I know they don´t do many laps (probably 25 laps) but did anyone know what lap times they did???

Reports are that Audi is doing 1:41 or even less than that, did anyone know if this is true???

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

After one and a half seasons

Yes, with what they admitted was an early full-season debut. They took the lead their first race (at LM), 2nd place second race, 1st place third race. Nissan otoh claim theyll win lm next year. But they cant complete a full test yet.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

They've got 78 hours of racing conditions ahead of them before Le Mans 2016. CTD has a very good point - it's early days yet. The car won't be judged by how it performs now or even this season.

Yes it will. People like to put the boot in.

However it is racing. There is only one winner. So plenty of chance to stick the boot in.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

I suspect that this is the Flybrid unit:


(source: racer.com)

This unit looks pretty massive, isn't it ?

[jswarde]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I don't care if they don't win a race anywhere this year, so long as I get the impression that they are really trying, and are taking their effort seriously.

Obviously Nissan couldn't care less what I think, but ...

And it doesn't matter that this is an innovative and very unusual project; I want every factory entry to be a full-on serious effort. If budget constraints are such that the project has no hope of success, I will certainly criticize that. If the budget is small and the team comes through anyway, hoorah.

So far ... as Fogle says, reason dictates patience and observation.

I had thought the Flybrid Dyson used was electrical whereas the Nissan's was kinetic? I talked to the Flybrid tech at PLM a couple years back, and looked at the cutaway on display ... but I have the memeory of a senile guppy.

Flybrid as a company were set up in about 2007 specifically to develop the flywheel mechanical (kinetic) KERS system; initially targeting formula 1. Their first client (Honda) unfortunately withdrew from F1 before the rule change that permitted Kers came into force. Subsequently the F1 rules were amended and currently do not allow purely mechanical Kers - bias towards electric. Flybrid have never developed a Kers unit that stores energy as electricity.

The Dyson car won the last Petit Le Mans race in season 2012 with the mechanical flywheel Kers system; It was using a 5kg flywheel - the current Nissan Flybrid system uses 1 (or 2) 8kg flywheel.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by jswarde

The Dyson car won the last Petit Le Mans race in season 2012 with the mechanical flywheel Kers system; It was using a 5kg flywheel - the current Nissan Flybrid system uses 1 (or 2) 8kg flywheel.

Thanks very much for the info. One small note, Dyson finished thirty-first, not first.

The flywheel system Dyson had on display was not a very large bit of equipment Hard to tell scale but the Nissan units look gigantic by comparison.

I do know the Dyson team found that the Flybrid was more of a headache than an aid, but that was a few years ago, and Dyson didn't have much of a budget at the time. I am really eager to see what Nissan will do with it.

[CyberMotor]

Zytek had a system on display at one of the PLM's that looked rather compact. Never heard if it found any application.

What's going on with Drayson?

Amazing how close Drayson is to Dyson in spelling.

What's going on with Dyson and Drayson? Any hope of seeing them again? They were innovators in this research and application of hybrid technology. Hope they both return and run with Nissan and the gang.

[jswarde]

[QUOTE=Maelochs;3512242]Thanks very much for the info. One small note, Dyson finished thirty-first, not first.

QUOTE]

Thanks for highlighting this; my info came from
http://www.dysonracing.com/petit-le-mans-race-2/

BRASELTON, GA October 20, 2012 – Dyson Racing ended the 2012 ten-race American Le Mans Series season as they started it by taking first place ALMS P1 points in the Petit Le Mans Powered by Mazda. Chris Dyson, Guy Smith and Steven Kane got the maximum ALMS points in their #16 Mazda-powered ModSpace/Thetford entry at both the spring 12 Hours of Sebring and the fall endurance classic held here at Road Atlanta.

However I do note that a race results web site places them 31st as you note; ......confused!!

[Adam43]

Multi-class racing, championship points eligible entry v race entry, PR.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Zytek had a system on display at one of the PLM's that looked rather compact. Never heard if it found any application.

What's going on with Drayson?

Amazing how close Drayson is to Dyson in spelling.

What's going on with Dyson and Drayson? Any hope of seeing them again? They were innovators in this research and application of hybrid technology. Hope they both return and run with Nissan and the gang.

I think Dyson has their hands full with the PWC Bentleys but I don't know what happened with Drayson. They were announced as one of the first Formula E teams but pulled out before the season started.


[QUOTE=jswarde;3512266]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Thanks very much for the info. One small note, Dyson finished thirty-first, not first.

QUOTE]

Thanks for highlighting this; my info came from
http://www.dysonracing.com/petit-le-mans-race-2/

BRASELTON, GA October 20, 2012 – Dyson Racing ended the 2012 ten-race American Le Mans Series season as they started it by taking first place ALMS P1 points in the Petit Le Mans Powered by Mazda. Chris Dyson, Guy Smith and Steven Kane got the maximum ALMS points in their #16 Mazda-powered ModSpace/Thetford entry at both the spring 12 Hours of Sebring and the fall endurance classic held here at Road Atlanta.

However I do note that a race results web site places them 31st as you note; ......confused!!

I think they meant they were the 1st place ALMS P1 team, which they technically were, despite their 31st place overall finish, as Rebellion was not part of the ALMS championship and no other P1 cars finished higher than 31st.

[TF110]

Some clever wording to make a bad result look good

Heres a nice excerpt from the Autosport article

The Sebring test for Nissan followed two runs at Austin totaling nine days either side of Christmas, and a test last month at Palm Beach International Raceway (formerly Moroso), as well as straightline testing at Michelin's US proving ground in North Carolina.

Bowlby confirmed that the GT-R LM was not running its rear hybrid system, which has been conceived only to deploy power harvested from the front axle.

He could not confirm that Nissan had decided against racing this system in the interests of weight saving nor which of the four classes of hybrid power the GT-R LM would run in this season.

LMP1 manufacturers must complete the homologation of their respective challengers next week, and declare the hybrid class in which their design will run for the full season.

Bolded part mine for emphasis.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Michelin's proving ground is in Laurens, South Carolina, not in North Carolina as the article states.

Sorry, I know most wouldn't care but I couldn't let that go unsaid.

[TF110]

Front wheel diameter larger? Theyre not 16" like the rear thats for sure. Look at this picture

[mikuni]

Interesting. Brake diameter may be the deciding factor?

[Trebor123]

Originally Posted by TF110

Front wheel diameter larger? Theyre not 16" like the rear thats for sure. Look at this picture

The wheel rim diameter is the same, at 16" front and rear, but the tyre rolling diameters are different. This is because the tyre sidewall height is 71% of the tyre width but the fronts are 14" wide and the rears 9". The Michelin tyre specifications are: 31/71 R16 (front) and 20/71 R16 (rear).

http://www.tiretechnologyinternation...p?NewsID=65911

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Trebor123

The wheel rim diameter is the same, at 16" front and rear, but the tyre rolling diameters are different. This is because the tyre sidewall height is 71% of the tyre width but the fronts are 14" wide and the rears 9". The Michelin tyre specifications are: 31/71 R16 (front) and 20/71 R16 (rear).

Expand the photo to its max and you can clearly see the rear wheel rim diameter is much smaller than the front wheel rim diameter. The rear tyre wall is also larger than the front.

[YorkshireLad]

The rear rim (wheel, alloy, whatever you want to call it) is defiantly smaller than the front. The rear tyre sidewall is larger than front tyres sidewall.

[Maelochs]

I am not sure if the rear wheel is smaller or just appears smaller. The fact that the rear is further away, and the wheel looks smaller because the sidewall is taller, could be fooling our brains.

Also, the very top of the rear tire is slightly obscured by the fender, while the front is clear and is actually lit (again adding to the apparent size) through the fender cut-out.

Add to that, that the front wheel is more parallel to the camera, and it shows the brake disc, which, because it is light draws the eye, heightens contrast, and could also be creating an optical illusion.

I am not saying the front wheel is Not bigger, because it appears to be. I am saying the listed specs include same-diameter wheels and taller rear sidewalls, and I am not sure if I am seeing an optical illusion or a change of spec.

[Trebor123]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Expand the photo to its max and you can clearly see the rear wheel rim diameter is much smaller than the front wheel rim diameter. The rear tyre wall is also larger than the front.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I am not sure if the rear wheel is smaller or just appears smaller. The fact that the rear is further away, and the wheel looks smaller because the sidewall is taller, could be fooling our brains.

Also, the very top of the rear tire is slightly obscured by the fender, while the front is clear and is actually lit (again adding to the apparent size) through the fender cut-out.

Add to that, that the front wheel is more parallel to the camera, and it shows the brake disc, which, because it is light draws the eye, heightens contrast, and could also be creating an optical illusion.

I am not saying the front wheel is Not bigger, because it appears to be. I am saying the listed specs include same-diameter wheels and taller rear sidewalls, and I am not sure if I am seeing an optical illusion or a change of spec.

This photo would appear to confirm that the wheel rim diameters are equal. It looks like it is taken with a wideangle lens but the car does not appear subject to any obvious perspective distortion. On the other hand the rolling diameter of the front and rear tyres appear similar, which is different to the expected result, if the tyre sidewalls were each 71% of the tyre width of 14" and 9", front and rear respectively.

[wdave0]

I believe the 71 is an outside diameter of the tire and if both are the same it would make the fronts about 40 profile and the rear about 60, which is pretty much what they look like. I think the apparent disparity in wheel diameter is an illusion because of this. Also, that rear tire is really tall for a modern race tire, many daily drivers are shorter.

[philipp]

Motorsport-total.com is reporting that the Nissan managed 68 laps over the 2 days in Sebring. Also saying that in comparison with the Audi, the Nissan is a substantially slower through the corners....

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-15030503.html

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Trebor123

This photo would appear to confirm that the wheel rim diameters are equal. It looks like it is taken with a wideangle lens but the car does not appear subject to any obvious perspective distortion. On the other hand the rolling diameter of the front and rear tyres appear similar, which is different to the expected result, if the tyre sidewalls were each 71% of the tyre width of 14" and 9", front and rear respectively.

Boring Friday afternoon (don't tell the boss ) so I thought I'd pull the wheels out to better compare them

Allowing for a bit of perspective I'd say they're pretty close...

While I was mucking about in Photoshop I thought I'd see how it looks without the fin:

[MulsanneMike]

Pretty evident Nissan was experimenting with larger diameter front wheels at Sebring. I mentioned back in January that Nissan was perhaps reconsidering the small tire concept, struggling with braking:

"Another issue is interesting in what it reveals. I'm told that the Nissan is utilizing much smaller diameter than conventional brakes (smaller than even P2 brake diameters apparently), with the idea the KERS provides the braking difference upon harvesting, as is being done in F1. The issue seems to be that the KERS isn't providing enough mechanical drag/braking force, though I'm told the setup will be OK for Le Mans. There's also been a suggestion that both the front and rear wheel diameters are smaller than conventional, as well as a confirmation the rear diameters are smaller than the fronts. With the smaller diameter wheels come tall side wall tires and I understand there have been issues with the vehicle dynamics and a suggestion of a reconsideration of the small tire concept. I can imagine what that would take, and affecting a major redesign such as that could be detrimental at this stage of the program. "

The pictures show pretty clearly larger diameter wheels on the front in some cases, and same diameter front and rear in others. Understand I'm talking about the wheel (metal bit), not the tire (black bit).

[Maelochs]

Well, if the wheel is painted black .... But what a disaster for Nissan. That's got to be a complete suspension geometry rethink and rebuild.

I wondered about flex with those sidewalls .... Anway, 2016 should be a better year for this car.

[TF110]

You can tell the front wheel is a larger diameter in certain photos from Sebring. Enlarging the pic I posted from Sc365 you can tell. Its also in question on Mr. Fuller's facebook group page. So others have noticed the same thing.