Mid-Ohio Entry List

[macdaddy]

My apologies for going off-topic, but I find myself increasingly-interested in ALMS and plan on making the trek to Mosport. (Hopefully get to meet Paul and a few others!) I've poised a few questions in the TrackSide forum regarding the track, perhaps somebody "in-the-know" could provide some enlightenment?

[GT1]

Originally posted by JAG
Were are the US equivalents of Rollcentre, Lister, JOTA, Taurus, willing to challenge the best in LMP1?

Road racing seemingly does not have any strength and depth in the US.

I hate to start sounding pro Grand Am here but it is very difficult to spend a lot of cash on the hope that you MIGHT have some sort of shot against an Audi. Anyone who spends huge cash (well most) want, at least on paper, to have some sort of chance.

Not to mention that most $$$ is going NASCAR's way these days.

[JAG]

But Rollcentre, Jota etc. are hardly big money operations.

Rollcentre has got more credibility from finishing well at Sebring, than others have got for winning handfulls of G/A races.

Personally I would sooner compete against the best, with little chance of winning, than compete in a lesser series.

[Liz]

Ditto -- most real racers feel that way or they'd stay in Formula Renault for their entire careers. Club racing has its place and there's no harm in it, but to mix it up with competitive sports car racing is a mistake.

Hope springs eternal and that's what makes competition possible.

[billnchristy]

its funny that you say that "lesser" series thing...is this the lesser series that has more competition in one hour than a whole season of the "greater" series? Is this the lesser series that has many teams with the same drivers of the "greater" series? And lastly...its strange that the drivers of the greater and lesser cars dont seem to mind their superiority/inferiority...just the "fans"

[skycafe]

Originally posted by ah746
Absolutely right in most respects about Team Elite... Although we are not installing a Judd....

Wow, I thought you had said Judd before? Maybe something has changed? I assume if were at liberty to elaborate, you would have--but I will ask anyway--Can you elaborate on engine choice/change?

Also, ah746, I had sent you a PM a bit ago. Don't know if team is still in Tavares, but if so, would love to come take a look if possible.

robert

[billnchristy]

the Judd statement was a guess as I recall...we were told it would be a different engine and everyone jumped on the Judd...why not just a newer chevy?

[JAG]

Originally posted by billnchristy
its funny that you say that "lesser" series thing...is this the lesser series that has more competition in one hour than a whole season of the "greater" series? Is this the lesser series that has many teams with the same drivers of the "greater" series? And lastly...its strange that the drivers of the greater and lesser cars dont seem to mind their superiority/inferiority...just the "fans"

Its a lesser series, as the technology is much lower tech, and there are fewer areas in G/A were teams can make a difference.

Sportscar racing has, and always will be about the cars. Make them slow, boring and ugly and who exactly is going to bother watching. If all you want is close racing go and watch touring cars or junior single seaters.

And from what I've read the drivers do indeed care about the DPs lack of performance.

Finally if the 'fans' do not support a series, how can it hope to survive.

Just to add, it would be so, so easy to improve the spectacle and performance of the DPs, at little cost, if G/A wanted to. Give them another 100BHP+, less weight, more downforce and they would be great to watch. You have to ask why G/A will not do this. Is it because G/A do not want the DPs to overshadow NASCARS.

[GT1]

Originally posted by JAG
Its a lesser series, as the technology is much lower tech, and there are fewer areas in G/A were teams can make a difference.

Sportscar racing has, and always will be about the cars. Make them slow, boring and ugly and who exactly is going to bother watching. If all you want is close racing go and watch touring cars or junior single seaters.

And from what I've read the drivers do indeed care about the DPs lack of performance.

Finally if the 'fans' do not support a series, how can it hope to survive.

Just to add, it would be so, so easy to improve the spectacle and performance of the DPs, at little cost, if G/A wanted to. Give them another 100BHP+, less weight, more downforce and they would be great to watch. You have to ask why G/A will not do this. Is it because G/A do not want the DPs to overshadow NASCARS.

Grand Am has shown a lot of arrogance regarding ANY changes on the DP rule book aside from silly things like production side mirrors. I think they put some things in there to just show they can do what they want. Like the name of the engine before the chassis, ie Porsche Fabcar. Every form of motorsport I know of calls the chassis before the engine unless it's something of a combo like the MG Lola. Yet they make it a "rule" to have it that way. I still can't get used to saying Pontiac Crawford or Ford Multimatic.

Grand Am could have gotten a lot of decent press by putting some more performance in the cars. Instead of trying anything speed them up, they eliminated and/or heavily handicapped every other class.

This, combined with the looks of the car and comments from the series own president essentially giving the "traditional" sports car fan a one finger salute, has meant that the DP hasn't been excepted particurally well in many fan bases. I remember one interview that was posted on here with Edmenton and one poster said "Finally one interview where he doesn't manage to tick me off!".

[tblincoe]

i dont consider GARRA's Daytona Prototype racing a sportscar series... i think of it more as a DTM/touring car type series with the format of JGTC races/class structure. Just because they run endurance races doesn't make them an endurance sportscar series...

[billnchristy]

that was me who made the statement about edmondson...yet somehow I support the series. I do believe that 100hp wont make a significant difference in performance as was pointed out by Edmondson due to the fact that you would then have to add aero to make the thing controllable and then you end up slowing down again...they might act a little better in braking, and accelerate a bit faster (giving the illusion of being faster than a porsche)...but reality would still top them out at 180 (which they hit...still slow to most though, why?)

I dont like the GT choking from a competiton against DP standpoint, but I do stand by it from a cost cutting standpoint...a porsche 911 should not cost 400k...period!, nor should ferraris baseline car.

Lastly, I wouldnt call it lesser from these standpoints:

1) the drivers are equal/same calibre
2) the money is the same
3) the races are of similar format
4) GA actually has more enduros.

I know no one is going to change their minds, but you have to admit the state of american sports car racing is affected by both LMES and GA...you cannot deny it...and you cant say its just the economy because new teams are sprouting up everywhere else...

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by ah746
"Don't know about AutoCon but recall that ah746 from Team Elite mentioned that they were aiming to install a Judd, which would require significant rebuild that may be schedule altering, and also were planning a relocate, which I imagine would be done before rebuild. So, that may go a long way to explaining their abscence."

Absolutely right in most respects about Team Elite... Although we are not installing a Judd....

The Plot Thickens!!!!!

Now I'm REALLY curious about what will be powering that Lotus....

To ah746:

Once the Team gets settled in Indy, I do hope that "tours" will be set up for gearheads to see your operation....

Some 10/10ths people who visit this Forum already have let me know they are coming in for races this year (the 500 or the USGP)....

Keep me posted if something like that would be possible and I'll let those people know the dates....

[BSchneiderFan]

What are the options for Team Elite?

A newer Chevrolet motor.
A traditional Ford V8.
An Elan V8.
A Mugen V8.
A Porsche flat-six?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
What are the options for Team Elite?

A newer Chevrolet motor.
A traditional Ford V8.
An Elan V8.
A Mugen V8.
A Porsche flat-six?

There could be many engine options for this chassis....we've covered quite a few in various "Engine Opetions" threads over the past year...

I could make a lot of speculative guesses....

But I'll wait for the announcement...

Something tells me that it will be something good....and something different!!!!!

It's obvious that these people think outside of the box....or they would have bought one of those Dallaras or another "what everyone else is running" type of chassis instead of this Lotus chassis...

But I'm also pretty confident in thinking that the new engine choice they have made is something that they feel has as much potential as the car....with some development....

That seemed to be the reasoning when they bought the Lotus...the car had not been developed a lot when it was first built, but they felt that it had a good baseline to start from and a lot of potential...

For that reason, I think the engine option will reflect that same line of thinking....

BTW....

I wish a lot more people thought like they do....they are going to make the ALMS season very interesting for me this year....

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by billnchristy
Lastly, I wouldnt call it lesser from these standpoints:

1) the drivers are equal/same calibre

You have to be joking, sure there are maybe 5-10 drivers in GA that could do a good job in the ALMS field, but a lot of the guys in GA are strictly amatuers, sure there are amatuers in the ALMS too, but I think most of us here would agree that the standard of driverz in the ALMS is on the whole signifcantly higher than that in GA.

[LouisTheShark]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
You have to be joking, sure there are maybe 5-10 drivers in GA that could do a good job in the ALMS field, but a lot of the guys in GA are strictly amatuers, sure there are amatuers in the ALMS too, but I think most of us here would agree that the standard of driverz in the ALMS is on the whole signifcantly higher than that in GA.

You must not haved looked at an entry last lately! There are now more "paid" drivers in Grand Am then in the ALMS. Even #1 ALMS cheerleader Bill Adam is running Grand Am.

[Tim Northcutt]

It's a shame that every thread dealing with racing over here has to become a "Grand Am vs. ALMS" feud....

I'm not interested....

Now if someone wants to tell us who "The Race Car Group" is....or that the Team Elite Lotus is going to have a Turbine engine in it and will run at Mid-Ohio, fine...

Maybe we should start a "Grand Am vs. ALMS" Forum where those who wish to do so can go to urinate on each other....

But I won't volunteer to be the Moderator....

[JAG]

Anybody considered a Toyota engine? Maybe an ex 3.5 IRL unit.

Afterall the US spec Elise road car (and some European cars now), use a Toyota 1.8 VVC engine.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by JAG
Anybody considered a Toyota engine? Maybe an ex 3.5 IRL unit.

Afterall the US spec Elise road car (and some European cars now), use a Toyota 1.8 VVC engine.

Virtually all of the IRL 3.5 L engines that wwere 2003 specs either have been or probably will be converted over to the new 3.0 l. formula....

However....the Chevy or Aurora engines, or the Infiniti engines prior to 2003 were "bought" engines....

You can buy those CHEAP....I've seen them for $20,000....

and the Caddy LMP engine was the IRL/Aurora block with the Opel DTM valvetrain and heads.....

There also are PLENTY of engine builders in Indy (where Team Elite is moving to) who could make a package like that fast and reliable....

also many sprint car engine builders...in case they were looking at a Chevy, MOPAR or Ford-based fuel-injected engine that would cost them about $40,000 each....tops....

[skycafe]

Wow Tim, I wonder if a turbine has any eligability? I actually just read a magazine article about Granatelli's turbines at Indy, lots of info, and I was very young when they ran so it was informative. Maybe they will unearth a Howmet turbine, which has a history at Le Mans.

[JAG]

Maybe if Team Elite were sponsored by Lotus/Toyota they could get some kind of deal on the engine.

One of their reasons for moving to Indy was to get closer to some of the suppliers etc. they will be working with.

[BSchneiderFan]

What about the V8 unit from the new JGTC Supra? I think it's a 5.7-litre block, so would be eligible. Which failing, AAR had some modest success with a 2-litre Toyota four...

[Patrick B]

The engine in the JGTC Supra is the same as the one in the Gannasi/Lista/Cegwa DP's i think. Lexus based from the 4.3L V-8...

[Fogelhund]

If people wish to troll, the so be it, let them be trolls.

AFAIK, the ALMS could have 2 LMP's, and still be better then watching Grand Am. Get over it, some people will not like it no matter how many cars are entered into that sham of a series.

This thread is about the Mid-Ohio entry. Discuss the Mid-Ohio entry, and leave the Grand-Am stuff for other threads.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally posted by Patrick B
The engine in the JGTC Supra is the same as the one in the Gannasi/Lista/Cegwa DP's i think. Lexus based from the 4.3L V-8...

But the engine in the JGTC is much bigger than 4.3-litres, surely?