[Team] McLaren - can they compete?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Two DNF's... again...

Do we know the engine answer yet?

During Sky F1's race broadcast, Croft mentioned Tuesday.

[F1Guy]

McLa-Ren-Ault.

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

McLa-Ren-Ault.

as it stands, it would take some goodwill (or risk-taking) by dr Markko. if he wants a Honda in one of his teams, Mclaren can get a Renault. otherwise, they have 0 options.

[chunder]

You cannot blame McLaren here surely.

They have given Honda more than enough time and even though they are hardly covered in sponsors, those that do fund them must be asking some serious questions. And quite rightly.

What I find more staggering is that during this whole time, Honda have never really got on top of what is wrong. Or within the confines of their engine they cannot do anything about it.

Look at yesterday, the Renault in Danny Ricc's car made him pretty much faster than a Ferrari all race. Yet we know that motor is lacking some power.

But, remember what it was like initially? It was lead weight and they at least have managed to make it relatively reliable and able to compete in a good chassis with the lower Merc and Ferrari teams.

I do think Honda have made significant progress, but they started behind the ball and have never caught up. And as a major team in F1 you can only put up with that for so long.

They have had more than enough time and simply have not kept to their side of the deal.

[S griffin]

They seemed to be doing alright this weekend pace wise, but yet again reliability lets them down. I can see them using Renault engines next season, it's IMHO the only way to keep Fred. And Vandoorn, was doing so well before his car broke down

[Moneyseeker]

My prediction for what it's worth is that McLaren swap to Renault until the end of the current engine regs, in the meantime they work with Cosworth to develop their own engine for the new regs.

[loon]

yes, Alonso get a Renault in the back of his McLaren then he can finish seventh in every race and complain over the radio about crap French engines

[gert]

Originally Posted by loon

yes, Alonso get a Renault in the back of his McLaren then he can finish seventh in every race and complain over the radio about crap French engines

If the chassis is as good as they think it is, they probably think they could be battling the Red Bulls.
And why not?

[gert]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

My prediction for what it's worth is that McLaren swap to Renault until the end of the current engine regs, in the meantime they work with Cosworth to develop their own engine for the new regs.

I'd guess
* Honda to Torro Rosso
* Renault to McLaren
* Alonso stays at McLaren
* Sainz to Renault
* Gasly or Matsushita to Torro Rosso.
* when/if Honda comes good: Honda to Red Bull

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gert

I'd guess
* Honda to Torro Rosso
* Renault to McLaren
* Alonso stays at McLaren
* Sainz to Renault
* Gasly or Matsushita to Torro Rosso.
* when/if Honda comes good: Honda to Red Bull

What about when/if Honda comes good: Honda go back to McLaren?

[gert]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

What about when/if Honda comes good: Honda go back to McLaren?

Not impossible, but I doubt it.

I think the reason Red Bull would want to equip Torro Rosso with Honda is to
1. be able to put pressure on Renault and
2. to have access to a better engine
of course, if/when it comes good.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

What about when/if Honda comes good: Honda go back to McLaren?

I think there'd be too strong a smell of burning bridges for that to happen. ("You didn't stick with us through the bad times, why should you benefit from the good ones?")

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think there'd be too strong a smell of burning bridges for that to happen. ("You didn't stick with us through the bad times, why should you benefit from the good ones?")

So, if McLaren lose Honda, how does that affect Alonso and his future attempts at Indy? This year's attempt was made possible by Andretti Autosport and McLaren's link with Honda.

[S griffin]

I'd love to see the Reanult engine in the back of the McLaren, it would mean we can finally see Fred back in action where he belongs and hopefully getting the results he deserves

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think there'd be too strong a smell of burning bridges for that to happen. ("You didn't stick with us through the bad times, why should you benefit from the good ones?")

I'd argue that McLaren have stuck with them longer than anyone else would, and that bad times should not be 3 years long with no improvement.

--

Alonso at Indy - he doesn't need a works Honda deal for that. If he wanted to try again and his F1 team lets him, IndyCar teams would queue up to put him in a car.

[Moneyseeker]

There will also be some great marketing benefits for a rather staid brand like Honda to partner with Red Bull.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by gert

I'd guess
* Honda to Torro Rosso
* Renault to McLaren
* Alonso stays at McLaren
* Sainz to Renault
* Gasly or Matsushita to Torro Rosso.
* when/if Honda comes good: Honda to Red Bull

It's all personal opinion, but mine is that If anything substantial happens it may look like that. I don't have strong opinions on your points #4 and #5. If I was Honda, pushing driver selection upon the larger Red Bull driver program seems like too much and frankly should not be large in their priorities.

Richard

[peebee2]

TR will probably just take the biggest money between Galael and Matsushita.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'd argue that McLaren have stuck with them longer than anyone else would, and that bad times should not be 3 years long with no improvement.

--

Alonso at Indy - he doesn't need a works Honda deal for that. If he wanted to try again and his F1 team lets him, IndyCar teams would queue up to put him in a car.

Possibly but IndyCar isn't awash with money, so that would limit it to the top three teams, Andretti Autosport, Ganassi and Penske and there's no guarantee Ganassi or Penske would jump at the chance. The Honda link was pivotal.

[Akrapovic]

The Honda link was pivotal because there's no way he'd be allowed to race a car with another badge, and certainly not compete against a Honda. If he was employed elsewhere with that in mind, and wanted to race at Indy, I don't see it being a problem. I don't imagine he'd be asking for a large fee given it's not a career move, it's an attempt at a personal goal.

I don't see the Honda badge being critical to Fernando racing at Indy. If he raced a Renault, badged as an over-priced watch, it'd be fine.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by loon

yes, Alonso get a Renault in the back of his McLaren then he can finish seventh in every race and complain over the radio about crap French engines

The Renault is arguably the piece of kit that holds back the RBRs from consistent front running form. They also have reliability issues. And play games with fresh engines to get them ready for their favoured tracks. And miss deadlines on upgrades. And have upgrades that aren't the leap they are promised to be.

Exactly the same as Honda really, except the base level of performance seems to be better, in the RBR at least...

[GTRMagic]

Red Bull Have A Veto In Their Contract

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Red Bull Have A Veto In Their Contract

Harking back to when Ron vetoed them having Merc engines!.

This maybe overcome in the greater scheme of t.hings

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The Honda link was pivotal because there's no way he'd be allowed to race a car with another badge, and certainly not compete against a Honda. If he was employed elsewhere with that in mind, and wanted to race at Indy, I don't see it being a problem. I don't imagine he'd be asking for a large fee given it's not a career move, it's an attempt at a personal goal.

I don't see the Honda badge being critical to Fernando racing at Indy. If he raced a Renault, badged as an over-priced watch, it'd be fine.

The Honda link was the common denominator, that facilitated Alonso's attempt and made it a fairly straight forward process. If Honda are out of the equation, that might not be quite so straight forward next time. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[newlaprecord]

I really dont understand how on earth Mclaren think that a premature end to the Honda deal would make any sense whatsoever.

1. Canceling the deal 2 years early has an estimated pricetag of 80mil EUR (according to AS Spain)

2. Honda's contribution to Mclaren's budget is understood to be around 90mil EUR a year (Alonso's salery, complete free of charge engines with full support and some sponsorship)

3. There is evidently no engine on the market that could be significantly better (let alone 95 mil a year! better) than Honda

4. Of course its getting harder to believe every year, but Honda is no joke in the game, and there is still a chance they can crack this nut during the following 2 years

I would instead get rid of Alonso (as he is getting way too loud for Japanese etiquette) and let Honda channel that 40mil a year back to their engine development. Get a guy like Perez who has the speed and the experience, and probably just as hungry to prove himself elsewhere as Vettel was after his year with hotshoe Ricciardo. Give him a huge bonus but minimum salery deal, take his sponsors onboard and make sure that the communication / work relation with Honda is restored to a healthy standard.

How is this not the best option?