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Old 30 Jul 2018, 01:09 (Ref:3840085)   #51
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A very light penalty for two daft crashes. Mercedes favoritism is blatantly obvious at this point.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 01:17 (Ref:3840086)   #52
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A very light penalty for two daft crashes. Mercedes favoritism is blatantly obvious at this point.
I agree, it does seem light.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 02:32 (Ref:3840088)   #53
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It was clumsy by Bottas, but 10 seconds was about the scope they could give aside from maybe a 5 place drop for Spa.

2 x 10 second penalties would have still seen him finish ahead of Gasly.

Vettel was very lucky not to get a puncture. Maybe next time he gives a little bit more space for self-preservation more than anything else.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 08:14 (Ref:3840118)   #54
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It was clumsy by Bottas, but 10 seconds was about the scope they could give aside from maybe a 5 place drop for Spa.

2 x 10 second penalties would have still seen him finish ahead of Gasly.

Vettel was very lucky not to get a puncture. Maybe next time he gives a little bit more space for self-preservation more than anything else.
Should have been 2 x 5 place grid penalties for Spa.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 08:52 (Ref:3840125)   #55
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What is the purpose of adding time as penalty when drivers are not awarded points by the overall race time but by the order they finish the race. At this point time penalty is very manipulative instrument in hands of officials, it gives them an enormous flexibility in punishing drivers without any or little consequences.

Real punishment would be a grid revision where punished driver would move back x amount of places from his checkered flag position. Some kind of cumulative point system should be implemented where each illegal move will be classified of how many points they consists off and accumulated points do not go away until season ends. On every X amount accumulated points driver should drop a position in the race he has reached that critical accumulation. Points do not reset to zero but instead they build up through out the season and penalties get harsher as more and more points are given.

Light illegal maneuvers such stepping over the pit lane entry line, cutting the chicane, etc should carry few or less points while unsafe driving such as Botas did yesterday or unsafe pit lane release would consist of whole lot more points to speed up the accumulation. So let's say on every 3 points earned you drop one position, if you somehow manage to get 4 points in one race while already having 2 points from previous races you drop two places after checkered flag. Easy as that.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 09:00 (Ref:3840127)   #56
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I'm not too sure I follow you. You initially say you're fed up with Red Bull blaming Renault for everything but in the last paragraph say, you get the impression that their engine reliability is worse than the other Renault engined cars.
He means that he is sick of Red Bull blaming Renault for everything, because if Red Bull have worse reliability than other Renault engined cars then it suggests problems with how Red Bull are packaging the Renault engine.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 09:15 (Ref:3840128)   #57
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I recorded yesterdays highlights and got up early today to watch the race before leaving for work. It wasn't the most exciting of Grans Prix, but enjoyable all the same.
Although I think that Bottas could be blamed for the collision with Ricciardo, I think the incident with Vettel was not Bottas' fault. As Coulthard said in the Channel 4 commentary, Vettel took a totally unusual line into that corner, turning in very early, forcing Bottas onto the kerbs, where he lost grip and bounced into the Ferrari. I thing Seb was luck to get away with at least a rear puncture there.
The other question I have about Vettel is what was happening before he came out onto the podium. It looked like he was arguing (or at least discussing something) with someone, and as Hamilton was the only other driver waiting to come out, I wonder what was going on...
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 09:17 (Ref:3840129)   #58
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More Bottas fault the Vettel clash, but Seb could have given him a bit more leeway
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 09:23 (Ref:3840130)   #59
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The Vettel incident was 100% Bottas fault.

Vettel didn't weave or change direction multiple times. He's entitled to defend the corner. At that point, Bottas had already lost the position and barely had his front wing alongside the Ferrari, nevermind anything else. Keeping his nose in there was never going to achieve anything.

There's an argument to be made that Vettel put himself in an unnecessarily dangerous position which could've let to a retirement. I'd completely agree with that. Bottas was never going to be able to hang on, so give him a little room and you'd keep the position and put yourself in less danger. So yeah, not the best race craft from Seb, but he's not at fault for Bottas running into the back of him after he's lost a position.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 14:35 (Ref:3840176)   #60
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He means that he is sick of Red Bull blaming Renault for everything, because if Red Bull have worse reliability than other Renault engined cars then it suggests problems with how Red Bull are packaging the Renault engine.
Thank you. That's exactly my point.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 14:54 (Ref:3840179)   #61
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Thank you. That's exactly my point.
Ok.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 15:15 (Ref:3840183)   #62
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He means that he is sick of Red Bull blaming Renault for everything, because if Red Bull have worse reliability than other Renault engined cars then it suggests problems with how Red Bull are packaging the Renault engine.
One aspect that has been mentioned is that RBR have chosen to not use the available since Austria upgrade MGU-K that all other Renault teams are using. Introduced because Renault felt it was more reliable.
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“It’s available for all the cars that want it,” Renault boss Cyril Abiteboul told Motorsport.com earlier this week. “It happens that not all teams have elected to go to the new spec.

"They will continue to use the MGU-K of a previous technical definition, with a higher reliability risk."
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 17:20 (Ref:3840192)   #63
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on one hand, i have no problem with RB taking issue with Renault. RB pay a lot and the manus have too much control and should be held accountable for the equipment they sell...maybe even held to a higher standard because its the engine manus who have pushed this formula in the first place.

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One aspect that has been mentioned is that RBR have chosen to not use the available since Austria upgrade MGU-K that all other Renault teams are using. Introduced because Renault felt it was more reliable.
but then there is this...if they have access to a better more reliable product but decide not to take it then thats on RB.
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 17:22 (Ref:3840193)   #64
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I'd like to hear RBRs side on why they are not using the better unit. Does it require RBR change the packaging of the engine?
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 17:50 (Ref:3840195)   #65
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I'd like to hear RBRs side on why they are not using the better unit. Does it require RBR change the packaging of the engine?
I think it might have been because it would have resulted in grid penalties at venues they didnt want penalties and instead re-used older used versions. Now I guess they have now used all those and will take penalties for now going to the newer ones
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Old 30 Jul 2018, 22:00 (Ref:3840226)   #66
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I'd like to hear RBRs side on why they are not using the better unit. Does it require RBR change the packaging of the engine?
The only person who has said it’s more reliable is Cyril Abitmorebullshit.

Also just a week after Renault refuses to replace Ricc’s whole PU etc. Despite him already starting last.
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Old 1 Aug 2018, 02:29 (Ref:3840530)   #67
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The only person who has said it’s more reliable is Cyril Abitmorebullshit.

Also just a week after Renault refuses to replace Ricc’s whole PU etc. Despite him already starting last.
Squirrel Abitfullofit…
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Old 3 Aug 2018, 10:52 (Ref:3841059)   #68
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..it won't be too long before it overheats and smoke will appear. And you know what they say about 'where there's smoke....
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I have a mobile phone that gets too hot and shuts off. It doesn't produce smoke. This sort of stringing things together is a perfect example of a "little knowledge is a dangerous thing"….
Yep.





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Old 3 Aug 2018, 10:55 (Ref:3841062)   #69
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Although I think that Bottas could be blamed for the collision with Ricciardo, I think the incident with Vettel was not Bottas' fault. As Coulthard said in the Channel 4 commentary, Vettel took a totally unusual line into that corner, turning in very early, forcing Bottas onto the kerbs, where he lost grip and bounced into the Ferrari. I thing Seb was luck to get away with at least a rear puncture there.
100% agreement there.

For anyone saying it was 100% Bottas' fault, watch how Ricciardo gets past Magnussen at the exact same series of corners. Ricciardo had planned his pass 2 corners ahead and positioned his car perfectly on the outside. Vettel on the other hand, was only thinking of making the pass at that corner, come what may. Putting himself in a situation he need not be in. Vettel had another brain fart moment that could well have been a Singapore 2017 all over again. He got away with it. The stewards didn't even investigate the Bottas / Vettel incident because it was a 50/50 incident. Vettel was too aggressive, and Bottas was too aggressive. End of.

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I won't say the championship is over but this has shades of 2017 all over again.
Very true. Vettel had more too lose by doing what he did. Goes to show he's temperament and how much thought (or the lack of) that goes into his overtaking. A stupid move by someone who has the best chance of winning the championship this year. But with 50-50 decisions like that, he well may end up throwing it away exactly as he did last year. Fingers crossed on that one.

The Bottas / Ricciardo incident however was 100% Bottas' fault. Bottas was over ambitious. No argument there. And the stewards saw it that way too. But they were too harsh IMO.

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A very light penalty for two daft crashes. Mercedes favoritism is blatantly obvious at this point.
Light?? Really?? Forget what happened in France on lap one did you? Vettel took Bottas out from P2, hitting him from behind, and put Bottas to the back of the grid. Vettel only got 5 seconds for that! No penalty points. And still managed to finish ahead of Bottas. Bottas hits Ricciardo, get's 10 seconds plus 2 penalty points to his licence, and finished behind Ricciardo. Fair and square right?? Mercedes favouritism indeed.



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Old 3 Aug 2018, 11:07 (Ref:3841066)   #70
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Vettel was a sure bet to win in Hungary given the Ferrari speed advantage currently. He has been in F1 for what... 12 years now? But he has not won a single race starting outside of the top three positions. Has not, and cannot win a race when he starts any lower than the top three. What a shameful record to have for a so called "4 time champion".








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Old 3 Aug 2018, 11:25 (Ref:3841075)   #71
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I remember DC saying that Seb seems to be a driver who plans moves, rather than being instinctive and as a result doesn’t know what to do if the plan doesn’t come off
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Old 3 Aug 2018, 13:24 (Ref:3841116)   #72
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I remember DC saying that Seb seems to be a driver who plans moves, rather than being instinctive and as a result doesn’t know what to do if the plan doesn’t come off
For someone of his experience, he does make some rash moves. Singapore last year, Baku this year, his overtaking of Bottas in France and Hungary this year.
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Old 3 Aug 2018, 15:22 (Ref:3841137)   #73
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Then again his overtake on Hamilton in Austria this year was one of the best we've seen in the hybrid era. Same with his move on Bottas in Barcelona last year. People who claim Vettel can't overtake are simply blind. Also, Singapore was not anybody's fault, least of all Vettel.
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Old 3 Aug 2018, 15:39 (Ref:3841139)   #74
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Vettel was a sure bet to win in Hungary given the Ferrari speed advantage currently. He has been in F1 for what... 12 years now? But he has not won a single race starting outside of the top three positions. Has not, and cannot win a race when he starts any lower than the top three. What a shameful record to have for a so called "4 time champion".
Having not won from outside the top three could be viewed another way - every time he's finished in a car capable of winning, he's already put at the front of the grid in qualifying.

Your statistic highlights how consistent he is at qualifying in a good car.

And there is nothing 'so called' about being 4-time champion.

But hey - why let obvious talent get in the way of pushing the same agenda continually?
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Old 3 Aug 2018, 15:47 (Ref:3841141)   #75
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Then again his overtake on Hamilton in Austria this year was one of the best we've seen in the hybrid era. Same with his move on Bottas in Barcelona last year. People who claim Vettel can't overtake are simply blind. Also, Singapore was not anybody's fault, least of all Vettel.
He can overtake alright but sometimes maybe a bit too hasty/impatient in getting the job done.
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