The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed, that was my point made some days ago. At the time of the mini Ford tried to build cars on the same cost basis and found it impossible. But Austin and Morris were already part of a quasi nationalised company since it was being subsidised by the government.

There was a time when any cars for export were hit with an export tax because they were using steel that should have been used on UK vehicles. This was again a failure of government to understand the need to export which in turn tends to improve the product.

[midgetman]

There was also the tiny problem of lousy quality steel so they rusted really, really badly. In the early 70s my parents had a 10 year old car and it was falling apart. Sarah's car is nearly double that and still rust free. German of course.

[Peter Mallett]

Again though, part of the overall problem. They wanted cheap, not good quality.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

There was a time when any cars for export were hit with an export tax because they were using steel that should have been used on UK vehicles. This was again a failure of government to understand the need to export which in turn tends to improve the product.

And these are the people you trust with our economy "in the broad sunlit uplands of [this] March? Yeah really..."

Brexit was a dream that's been let down by professional politicians who don't want to leave. They've shown their true colours and they can't run a whelk stall let alone the economy. I despair over where we're going next, whether it be Hopeless May or That Dreadful Mr Corbyn in charge, we're all ****ed.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

There was also the tiny problem of lousy quality steel so they rusted really, really badly. In the early 70s my parents had a 10 year old car and it was falling apart. Sarah's car is nearly double that and still rust free. German of course.

Not always the case with German cars In more recent times (circa 20yrs ago) Mercedes had a rust problem on certain models, due to a change to cheaper quality steel and water based paint. Bean counters were blamed.....

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

There was also the tiny problem of lousy quality steel so they rusted really, really badly. In the early 70s my parents had a 10 year old car and it was falling apart. Sarah's car is nearly double that and still rust free. German of course.

But the entire car industry, led by Audi as I recall, started to change its strategy on steel quality and treatments in the late 70s (or thereabouts).

Led by Audi because they had forged a reputation as a "premium" brand with the the additional costs paying for the better metal.

Eventually, as car ownership expanded and German premium brands become almost affordable on credit (another concept that was developing at the time), the idea of a premium medium and even small car became mainstream - possibly because cars were, in general, increasing in size due in part to safety regulations.

For the last decade we have had cars that, absent dodgy decorative add on plastic panels and poorly thought through wheel arch liners, have bodies that will last 20 years before reaching the state that 60s and 70s cars would reach in 5 or less in Northern Europe. Great!

But the engines and transmission have become so 'clever', for reasons of 'emissions' and the like, that they readily fail and are uneconomic to fix. So the longevity of the body is rarely tested. What a waste of steel and energy to build them!

Dodgy metal has been replaced by dodgy electronics - it's the way the manufacturers have overcome the replacement cycle extension that the better steel brought to their sales numbers. They are, after all, primarily box shifters not fixers these days. (There could be an argument that for losing money on each Mini being a loss leader for the later sales of parts and services to fix them ... )

The numbers count. If you can't sell a vehicle to the market because it is likely to rust you have to fix the rust problem but that does not stop you introducing some other issue - especially something related to "advanced technology" that may have a "wow" factor - to improve the sales figures without totally losing the "quality" reputation.

Road safety regulations and a focus on less obvious injuries - like neck injuries after even a minor shunt despite (or because of?) headrests - have also helped sales.

How?

Well a small bump and a simple question, "Does your neck ache?", combined with the possibility of some insurance compensation will have the rescue services whipping the roof of a hardly damaged car within minutes. Insurance will be paying for a replacement. The market is once again buoyant.

In effect it is, in principle, extremely non-cost effective to build cars that will last for 20 years in terms of structure but rarely more than half that in terms of mechanical and electronic components. Even in the case of engines which are so much better these days than they were back in the 60s, 70s and even 80s, their potential longevity is entirely lost if the electronics fail. Or a 10p rubber O-ring as in the case of some AMG engines.

However, the real killer of the motor industry for personal vehicles in Europe will be Electric Vehicles, especially when autonomous, unless something dramatic happens in terms of battery technology or motor effectiveness and efficiency and the quality and reliability of complex electronics.


IMO.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

And these are the people you trust with our economy "in the broad sunlit uplands of [this] March? Yeah really..."

Brexit was a dream that's been let down by professional politicians who don't want to leave. They've shown their true colours and they can't run a whelk stall let alone the economy. I despair over where we're going next, whether it be Hopeless May or That Dreadful Mr Corbyn in charge, we're all ****ed.

For the reason highlight above one has to wonder whether the option t be entirely managed by the EU might be a better option. By that I mean total integration.

However I see no real evidence that that collective capability is any better than the poor local quality. Even at the political level.

At the bureaucratic and administrative level I suspect, based in information from others who have been or are involved with certain parts of the EU empire, things seem no better than at the political level - indeed they may be even worse than we seem to be able to manage locally.

Clearly the answer is to ban Whelks and so eliminate the problem of who runs the stall.

[midgetman]

I think that supports my last three words...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Lancsbreaker]

I find it interesting that in a little-reported series of cases a group of people referred to as "Wilson et al" have been challenging the Prime Minister in court on the basis that various things such as excessive payments on the Leave campaign, and Facebook irregularities / Russian disinformation campaigns have rendered the referendum illegal, and therefore the PM's action in triggering Article 50 and subsequent actions are "irrational", and therefore Brexit should be abandoned. Not sure who is funding this but it got to the Court of Appeal having been rejected at various levels, and last week the Court of Appeal rejected the application.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEBDrv9RJPQ



The really interesting thing is that on FB, Remain groups seem to be claiming this as a victory - presumably on the basis that the courts have accepted that the result was flawed, although ignoring the ruling that as the referendum was not mandatory, the result (whether overturned or not) was not binding on the Government and that in fact Parliament had voted to approve the Article 50 action.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I think that supports my last three words...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Probably, although much depends on how much you need whelks in your life.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

The really interesting thing is that on FB, Remain groups seem to be claiming this as a victory - presumably on the basis that the courts have accepted that the result was flawed, although ignoring the ruling that as the referendum was not mandatory, the result (whether overturned or not) was not binding on the Government and that in fact Parliament had voted to approve the Article 50 action.

Nothing is ever really binding in politics.


Nor Law making.


What is done can always be undone.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Wasn't purchase tax the reason behind the Lotus 7? Buy it as a box of bits and save 7%.

Bit late with this but I remember as an apprentice at Vickers Armstrong which morphed into the BAe, I hankered after a 7 which if I remember rightly could be purchased as a self build for around £500! If you bought an assembled car the cost was in excess of £1000 IIRC. Since my pay at the time was £3 15s per week needless to say I never bought one! There were several kit car manufacturers at the time all selling their products direct to the public for self assembly, mostly all using the 1172cc side valve engine.

[Mike Bell]

Certainly another for the ‘you couldn’t make it up’ category.....

Eurotunnel announced recently that they were going to take the government to court as they hadn’t been invited to bid for extra channel crossing capacity. We all know what happened, and now the tunnel operator has been awarded £33 million out of court settlement......

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-pays-eu...v_CE1V1RnuoNRZ

[gary396]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Certainly another for the ‘you couldn’t make it up’ category.....

Eurotunnel announced recently that they were going to take the government to court as they hadn’t been invited to bid for extra channel crossing capacity. We all know what happened, and now the tunnel operator has been awarded £33 million out of court settlement......

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-pays-eu...v_CE1V1RnuoNRZ

Can be explained in two words: Chris Grayling

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by gary396

Can be explained in two words: Chris Grayling

These quotes sum it up, in my opinion-

The DfT said this will protect the "vital freight capacity" purchased from ferry operators to help ensure the continued supply of "crucial medicines, medical supplies and veterinary medicines in a no-deal scenario".

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said: "The agreement with Eurotunnel secures the Government's additional freight capacity, helping ensure that the NHS has essential medicines in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

Give me strength.....

[Mike Harte]

Eurotunnel had the government and DaFT by the short and curlies; whichever way they would have tried to fight the case, they were going to be shown up for the shower that they are. And the £33 million isn't their money anyway, it's ours.

Failing Grayling has been a disaster in every job that he has been given by both Cameron and May. Makes you wonder what hold he has/had over them?

[Peter Mallett]

Probably pictures involving camels or something...........................

I've said it before but Civil Servants are not equipped to do business, and today's career politicians are equally ill equipped. No business acumen whatsoever.

[morninggents]

Just to be on the safe side and I was going to the post office anyway to post a parcel I got my International Driving Permit today. Total time in the post office was 25 minutes which included me having to dash out to a nearby photographer to get a passport photo which I'd forgotten to take! So probably no more than 10 minutes to get the job done. Can't complain at that.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Certainly another for the ‘you couldn’t make it up’ category.....

Eurotunnel announced recently that they were going to take the government to court as they hadn’t been invited to bid for extra channel crossing capacity. We all know what happened, and now the tunnel operator has been awarded £33 million out of court settlement......

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-pays-eu...v_CE1V1RnuoNRZ

The government were unaware that Eurotunnel used to run MyFerryLink - e.g. took over from SeaFrance.
Which was closed down by the UK Competition & Markets Authority - e.g. the government!

Just as well they put so much effort into giving a contract to the people with no boats & a takeaway website etc!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Failing Grayling has been a disaster in every job that he has been given by both Cameron and May. Makes you wonder what hold he has/had over them?

He does show similar levels of competence to them!!

[Peter Mallett]

Just had a letter from Footman James effectively telling me that I will need "something known as a green card" in the event of a no deal Brexit if I want to drive in Europe. Since when have we not needed a "Green Card"? I've been renewing mine every trip.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Just had a letter from Footman James effectively telling me that I will need "something known as a green card" in the event of a no deal Brexit if I want to drive in Europe. Since when have we not needed a "Green Card"? I've been renewing mine every trip.

You haven’t needed a physical green card for several years, Peter. But, like IDPs, they can still be issued on request or if you desire to have one.

As FJ say, we could require them officially again....

[Peter Mallett]

I never knew that. So I'm going to be inconvenienced by having to order a green card. That's it we should remain.

[Mike Harte]

My insurers emailed me yesterday concerning the issuing of green cards, warning that they would need at least 3 weeks notice if one is required.

There was also the little get out clause in the email that they have no intention of charging for issuing the cards " at this time".


Whilst talking about car insurance, this is the first year that I can remember in the last 10 years or so that the insurer that I chose last year has actually renewed at a lower premium without my needing to try to haggle. In fact, their renewal quote has come in lower than any of the comparison sites were quoting, which is a bit of a result.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by justracing

Bit late with this but I remember as an apprentice at Vickers Armstrong which morphed into the BAe, I hankered after a 7 which if I remember rightly could be purchased as a self build for around £500! If you bought an assembled car the cost was in excess of £1000 IIRC. Since my pay at the time was £3 15s per week needless to say I never bought one! There were several kit car manufacturers at the time all selling their products direct to the public for self assembly, mostly all using the 1172cc side valve engine.

I was working for Lotus at the time when we sold the 7 project to Caterham. No-one really knew what the component cost of a 7 was. When an order was received, the storeman from Lotus Racing (the division responsible for the 7) pretty well knew by heart what went into the car & he simply went to the stores & picked the parts.

So, we ended up with him spreading out a complete car in component form on the floor of the Director's garage & I priced it up.