Button vs. Alonso

Hugh Jarce · 19 Aug 2002, 08:41 (Ref:360969)

Got back from hols just in time to sit down for the race - man, I thought swimming in the sea for two weeks was boring!

Quick points / questions on the Button, Alonso transition.

With Button blowing potential constructors points with a stupid mistake on the grass, what's to stop Renault giving Alonso the seat before the end of the season?

Thoughts / questions.

1. Does Button contractually have the right to drive?
2. Even though Button is a 'professional' his heart can't be fully in it with the BAR move on the way - he's only human.
3. Alonso could do with race experience to get the best start in 2003.
4. What advantages are there in keeping Button in, when Alonso appears to be quick from recent testing? He could get points too!
5. If you were really mean, and of course Flavver could not be accused of this (!), a lack of races for Button could effect BAR.

Just wondered!

[Edited the title. R.]

Mania · 19 Aug 2002, 08:51 (Ref:360976)

If Renault really wanted to win - they would get rid of both Button and Trulli - and hire Villeneuve and partner him with Alonso. Button may be a question mark as a top line driver but so is Trulli. Trulli has really disappointed this season.

As far as Alonso goes, he has talent and he deserves a shot. But it would not be right to put him in the car this season - Button has a contract like it or not - he should at least see out the season before going on to BAR.

av8rirl · 19 Aug 2002, 09:08 (Ref:360988)

But Trulli has disappointed in nearly every season. Did you see the in-car action from the 1st lap? What a girl!!! (No offence to any of the girls on this forum)

Hugh Jarce · 19 Aug 2002, 09:09 (Ref:360989)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania
Trulli has really disappointed this season.

I agree. I can't imagine that he or the Renault bods will be happy if he remains where he currently is in the driver's list at the end of the season - with no more points.

I said a few months ago on here somewhere that I would have had Button and Alonso next year!

Regarding whether Button 'should' drive out the season, I'm with you - it's the 'decent' thing to do - but then that's probably why I'm not running an F1 team and just dreaming I was!

Hugh Jarce · 19 Aug 2002, 09:17 (Ref:360996)

[Edited the title. R.] [/B][/QUOTE]
No probs! It's my journalistic side coming out - good headlines sell 'threads'. 'Engineers' style headline accepted!

steve_r · 19 Aug 2002, 09:26 (Ref:361003)

Trulli was so disappointing, and never even looked like scoring any points in the race. At least Button looked likely to score somthing until his spin.

Total-F1 · 19 Aug 2002, 14:03 (Ref:361263)

Renault's image would plummet if they dropped Button. It would be the worst thing imaginable marketing-wise!

neilap · 19 Aug 2002, 21:09 (Ref:361592)

Button looked good against RS which is not that difficult to do. He then was up against one of the best in the business and I think his true potential was not shown because he left a good team to race at the back of the pack. Also, who can beat GF?

Renault would not break their contract with JB. He has been the better of he drivers this year. One mistake does not constitute failure. At least he does not say there was oil on the track and he handles pressure pretty well.

Mr V · 19 Aug 2002, 21:25 (Ref:361612)

Why replace Jenson with Alonso? Yes, Jenson made a mistake but he was running in front of his "more illustrious" team mate at the time, and Trulli didn't do anything of note all race either.

With regards to JV coming in and pushing the team forward, granted, he can get the job done in a good car, but seems not to be able to develop cars, so i don't think Renault would improve much with him there, and the last and most important thing, he's burnt his bridges with Renault!

Guy Goddard2 · 19 Aug 2002, 21:44 (Ref:361636)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
Why replace Jenson with Alonso? Yes, Jenson made a mistake but he was running in front of his "more illustrious" team mate at the time, and Trulli didn't do anything of note all race either.

Totally agree here, if a driver has the guts to stand up and say "yep sorry my mistake" then Button will only become a stronger character.
The topic should centre more on Renault replacing Trulli, good qualifyer dreadful racer as seen at the start, Button goes round the outside of him and then goes wheel to wheel with Montoya and takes him.
Ok Button made a mistake but he also proved the point again that he is a better racer than Trulli and this equals World Champion points.
I cant believe they dropped Button over Trulli, the mistake of the year and Trulli wont last a full season next year in my view.

Guy

mac · 20 Aug 2002, 02:26 (Ref:361774)

Trulli was only two cars behind Button and running a quicker pace. They were both under huge pressure from the Macs - and Button threw it off the road, Trulli didn't.

As for the 1st corner, he may have appeared to be a bit cautious, but I have never seen someone being cautious fighting a car as hard as he was.

allen_overy · 20 Aug 2002, 02:33 (Ref:361776)

Button does not have the contractual rights to drive for next year in Renault. He at most has an option.

Mania · 20 Aug 2002, 09:08 (Ref:361899)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v

With regards to JV coming in and pushing the team forward, granted, he can get the job done in a good car, but seems not to be able to develop cars, so i don't think Renault would improve much with him there, and the last and most important thing, he's burnt his bridges with Renault!

I agree that Jacques isent particularly good at devlopment mr.v - even during his Williams days it was the same story - but I think in the right kind of environment Jacques will get the job done - even with developing the car. I think Jacques is really desperate to hang on to an F1 drive and he wants to start winning again - if he goes to Renault he would make an immediate impact. As for burning bridges with Renault - if the top guys at Renault want him - then lil ol Flavio will have no choice but to accept Villeneuve!

buttonfan · 20 Aug 2002, 10:21 (Ref:361931)

Why everybody think that Alonso is something special. He drove Minardi last year and have two week team mates. The same thing is with Webber this year. Davidson showed in Hungary that Webber is not so outstanding.
Renault will never win world championships with Trulli. Perhaps Alonso can do it, but I doubt. Look what Fisi is doing in Jordan. He has more points then Trulli.

bosch! · 20 Aug 2002, 14:01 (Ref:362066)

It doesnt make scence to drop your quickest driver, the one most likley to get you points, but as Flav has already done that once (a year) who can tell what goes through that small man's mind.

Why havent Renault developed what looked like a promising chasis?

I Ate Yoko Ono · 20 Aug 2002, 23:16 (Ref:362554)

One thing I agree on with most posts here is that Trulli is, and always has been, a disappointment in F1.

I also agree with the notion that Alonso might not be so great. I have never known of a driver so massivvely hyped (including JPM), especially when you consider he hasn't really achieved anything yet.

LindaC · 21 Aug 2002, 00:14 (Ref:362588)

Quote:

Originally posted by av8rirl
But Trulli has disappointed in nearly every season. Did you see the in-car action from the 1st lap? What a girl!!! (No offence to any of the girls on this forum)

And did you see Trulli being hit by other cars,particularly Montoya from behind? As he was trying to sort out the effect on his car, his team mate took the space he was going to use while Montoya drove past on the inside. Then Raikkonen touched wheels with him. As Pat Symonds described it...." a very traumatic first few corners..."

LindaC · 21 Aug 2002, 00:19 (Ref:362591)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania
If Renault really wanted to win - they would get rid of both Button and Trulli - and hire Villeneuve and partner him with Alonso. Button may be a question mark as a top line driver but so is Trulli. Trulli has really disappointed this season.

As far as Alonso goes, he has talent and he deserves a shot. But it would not be right to put him in the car this season - Button has a contract like it or not - he should at least see out the season before going on to BAR.

Trulli may have disappointed you, but he hasn't disappointed Renault and that's what counts.

There's no way that Button won't finish the season, and never was. I guess this is just another opportunity for the Trulli bashing that you are all so fond of.

Minardi fan · 21 Aug 2002, 00:31 (Ref:362594)

Tough one to call... If I were Flav, it would be Jenson and Fernando in the Renaults next season BUT Jarno was brought into F1 by Briatore and he's not going to call it quits on his driver. I think Trulli has the *potential* to be megaquick, IF he can find the speed he so obviously has during qualifying.

Alonso will do great things in the Renault, and unfortunately could quite easily spell the end of Trulli's Renault career.

As for Jenson... BAR is a road to nowhere - just look at JV...

LindaC · 21 Aug 2002, 00:32 (Ref:362595)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
Button looked good against RS which is not that difficult to do. He then was up against one of the best in the business and I think his true potential was not shown because he left a good team to race at the back of the pack. Also, who can beat GF?

Renault would not break their contract with JB. He has been the better of he drivers this year. One mistake does not constitute failure. At least he does not say there was oil on the track and he handles pressure pretty well.

JB has had the better reliability this year and managed to score points at the beginning when the Renault was more competitive. Since Monaco, Trulli has scored more points.If you look at lap times in the races, when their machinery has been equal, the drivers have been equal. Trulli had a faster fastest lap than Button in Hungary....it was also faster than Fisichella, Massa, and the wonderful Jacques.

It would be nice if people said "one mistake does not constitute failure" when Trulli makes one. He does always admit to them also, so you can be sure that if he says he has spun on oil it was really there.

Trulli has been in a few pressure situations as well this year, for instance racing ahead of Ralf in Canada for several laps near the end of the race. Trulli got a point there. He was also pressured by DC and later Heidfeld in Hungary. And didn't make a mistake. Jenson was pressured and spun off.

I don't have anything against Jenson. I'm just fed up with the bias.

LindaC · 21 Aug 2002, 00:34 (Ref:362596)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania

I agree that Jacques isent particularly good at devlopment mr.v - even during his Williams days it was the same story - but I think in the right kind of environment Jacques will get the job done - even with developing the car. I think Jacques is really desperate to hang on to an F1 drive and he wants to start winning again - if he goes to Renault he would make an immediate impact. As for burning bridges with Renault - if the top guys at Renault want him - then lil ol Flavio will have no choice but to accept Villeneuve!

Flavio IS a top guy at Renault and they don't want Villeneuve.

LindaC · 21 Aug 2002, 00:38 (Ref:362598)

Quote:

Originally posted by buttonfan
Why everybody think that Alonso is something special. He drove Minardi last year and have two week team mates. The same thing is with Webber this year. Davidson showed in Hungary that Webber is not so outstanding.
Renault will never win world championships with Trulli. Perhaps Alonso can do it, but I doubt. Look what Fisi is doing in Jordan. He has more points then Trulli.

And this time last year Trulli had 9 points in a Jordan that was worse than this years' car.

LindaC · 21 Aug 2002, 00:40 (Ref:362600)

Quote:

Originally posted by I Ate Yoko Ono
One thing I agree on with most posts here is that Trulli is, and always has been, a disappointment in F1.

I also agree with the notion that Alonso might not be so great. I have never known of a driver so massivvely hyped (including JPM), especially when you consider he hasn't really achieved anything yet.

How about Button?

Minardi fan · 21 Aug 2002, 00:44 (Ref:362601)

Button was atrociously over-hyped before he arrived in F1... but by the end of his debut season he had proved his worth. His time at Benetton was obviously difficult, not only because of the talent of Fisi but also because of the bias towards him within the team in terms of who got what machinery... At Renault Button has been a star. His mistake at Hungary, it was a racing accident. But in general this season, his racing has been out-standing. Trulli on the other hand... like I said, he's got the potential. A lot of it. If he put in laps during the race like he did in qualifying, he'd be very very quick. But perhaps he also lacks the fight that some of the feistier drivers (Heinz, Montoya, Kimi and Mark) have out there - including to an extent Jenson.

mac · 21 Aug 2002, 00:56 (Ref:362602)

Linda - you go girl!

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