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Old 11 Jun 2019, 04:35 (Ref:3909279)   #1171
Casper
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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And this stuff isn't going away now that it's been invented. You can't take that level of refinement out of the engineers' heads now that it's been learned.

And as for changing F1 and the resulting issues with lower categories, it's not so much the sheer amount of resources F1 teams are using; it's that if you slow F1 down by much, you have to slow down all those other categories to keep the existing pecking order of F1 being "the fastest", and therefore, "the pinnacle".
Yes, the last point is what I meant and I did not expand that at all as I should have. As for the problem of taking away the technical stuff there is no need to do that. If the data coming off the car cannot monitor everything they put on it they will soon reach a point where the risk is too great. If all they can monitor is temps, fuel flow & pressure, GPS & Gear/RPM then the rest had better be bloody good stuff and dead reliable because when they get a problem they will actually have to nut it out. I have left suspension out because I think the drivers need to do some thinking themselves and the engineer actually learn what fixes certain things. It does not ban fancy suspension and by all means allow it but they won't be able to look at the data and have an instant fix to a problem. This is all dreamland stuff because at this level if a team is spending millions they want a return on investment and not a lottery which is exactly why we have what we have. The teams are not in F1 to take chances with their investments they want certainty.
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 05:49 (Ref:3909284)   #1172
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Wnut, I didn't refer to any specific part, but the overall level of refinement that the engineers now are going to take any component to that they possibly can. And that level of refinement is a direct consequence of all the restrictions in the rules; if you restrict what can be done/worked on, the rest will get the focus, to an even greater nth degree.

Those brakes take 6 months to make, one carbon atom fired onto the backing plate at a time. And they produce more stopping force than anything else in the automotive world.

The technology types of some things might not be the most radical out there, but being able to shrink it down, cool it, and package it such as they do now certainly is cutting edge. If it wasn't, failure wouldn't be the issue that it clearly is.

You're a bit optimistic on the weight there, as the current standard listing is 743 kg, and don't expect F1 cars to ever drop below 600 kg again; the F1 cars that people remember weighed less than that were from some time ago, before the current levels of built-in crash protection.

Even with the weight reduction, does that cancel out the impact of the instant torque provided by the electric motors? The main places where F1 cars are still faster than the other categories, even with their current weight, is in acceleration and braking. It's not particularly in either minimum corner speed (at least in the slow stuff) or top-end speed on the straights. Mid-corner speed in the quicker stuff isn't hugely different from other high-downforce categories like LMP1.

The cars aren't going to lose the electronics; the manufacturers will leave first, as they don't make engines without them anymore. (Anyway, at some point here, Europe may well mandate that it all be electronics, regardless.)

And yes, Casper, it is dreamland that the manufacturers would go along.

Not to mention, if anything happens to the suspension, for one, it's likely an automatic DNF anyway, even with the telemetry they have now.

As for the other stuff, to an extent, perhaps. Remember that teams, even with the issues they were having (including Red Bull), wouldn't drop throttle- or brake-by-wire systems; that's a pretty big safety hazard if anything goes wrong. So they probably won't cut back too much on the complexity, because if one team does it, and actually gets it to work reliably, the others will be so far off the pace it won't even be funny.
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 09:28 (Ref:3909319)   #1173
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My suggestion is let them pour all the technology into the cars that they want but severely curtail and restrict their access to data from the car while it is at the track so they can't micro manage it. There is absolutely no reason for them to stop the improvements but make it more of a guessing game by denying them information and introduce chance. I would take a lot of rules away and simplify the rule book so they would attempt to load more technology into the cars and then remove all the buttons on the dash and all communication from the pits. The only button on the wheel should be the horn. Taking this approach will introduce a bit of chance and risk taking. If they make it too complicated the whole thing will fall over during a race or even in practise and qualifying.

The cars are too reliable and we need more of a lottery but fat chance of that though with the millions at stake.
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 15:25 (Ref:3909381)   #1174
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The cars are notably less reliable since they've had the hybrid and KERS systems. On the flip side, even classic and vintage machinery is a lot more reliable than it was in the day, since they're running on track surfaces that don't beat those cars to a pulp now, and modern oil/fuel filters alone are also making a huge difference.
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 15:31 (Ref:3909385)   #1175
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The cars aren't going to lose the electronics; the manufacturers will leave first, as they don't make engines without them anymore. (Anyway, at some point here, Europe may well mandate that it all be electronics, regardless.)

And yes, Casper, it is dreamland that the manufacturers would go along.
the assumption here being that the manus are more interested in the technology then they are the marketing and advertising benefits of F1?

no doubt that the 'technology' is also what they are advertising but there is a line here somewhere because the technology that F1 is pursuing isnt relatively interesting nor is it actually improving the quality of the racing/sporting event.

a more thermally efficient engine is of course cool but its not going to literally change the world in 10 years the same way smart phones have over the past 10 years.

the closest F1 has recently got to the space race was with a non manu team (RB) dropping some dude out of space capsule.

the best aerodynamisists arent working in F1 and surely F1 isnt a training ground so that these aero specialists can go back to their manu and help them design plastic cladded generic bubble SUVs to be built on a global assembly line... presumably the bast are working in fields like building trains that travel faster than 400km/h. the movement of mass numbers of people is the future and certainly not inefficiently moving one person around.

for sure im being a bit glib here but the technology that some teams are spending half a billion a year on are no longer interesting, not particularity good for racing, and not relevant to the human race imo.

anyways, imo, unless the next race track is going to be built in space i think its a huge mistake to pin F1's future hopes on more of these technologies (and the rising costs that come with it) that the manus are currently pursing.

the above is more of a philosophical point (well rant really)so please take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 18:29 (Ref:3909422)   #1176
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Not sure what exactly "no longer interesting" or "isn't relatively interesting" is supposed to mean.

The TGV shows that we've known how to make 400-km/h trains for a while. And actually, the aerodynamics of an F1 car, or LMP1, a probably a lot more complicated. For those vortex-producing bits, among other things, yeah, it probably does help to have the best people in the field on that.

The manufacturers are there to win, not see how even things can be, so it doesn't really matter to them if their own technology doesn't expressly improve the racing; that's not their job in the first place.

Yes, I'm aware of where regular transportation is headed, at least in other parts of the world, and in the very largest cities in the US. That doesn't really have anything to do with F1 though, or motor racing in general. And in my neck of the woods, you'd have to shoot some people, because they're not going to give up their big pick-em-up trucks so long as they're alive, no matter what anybody says.
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 20:16 (Ref:3909448)   #1177
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to each their own of course but i guess the technologies associated with F1 that used to interest me i find are more interestingly pursued by other industries.

as for the manus i imagine their desire is to pursue technologies they can monetize in their road cars (electric self driving cars) isnt a particularly relevant for a racing series. too quiet and i need drivers to matter more not less.

and to compound matters they spend way too much money while doing it that its come across more as wasteful then valuable.

hence im more inclined to look for other solutions that de-emphasis spending and technology with the hope that leads to a more competitive series.
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Old Today, 01:04 (Ref:3911399)   #1178
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As predicted deadline for 2021 rules extended. June 2019 now pushed out to the end of October 2019.

"…. it has been unanimously agreed to defer the final presentation of the Technical, Sporting and Financial regulations for the FIA Formula 1 World Championship for 2021 and beyond until the end of October 2019,” it said in a statement.
“While the FIA Formula 1 World Championship’s key stakeholders feel the core objectives outlined for the future set of regulations of the championship have been defined, in the interests of the sport it was agreed that the best outcome will be achieved by using the extra time for further refinement and additional consultation.”"

Wonder what the next deadline will be ….?

Why doesn't the FIA simply publish the set of rules they want, which I understand they are entitled to do when there is no agreement, and make the teams change the rules they don't like with unanimity and the Ferrari veto in place?

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...ials-are-split
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