The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[Dan Rear]

Well that's one way to try and force the issue. Forza Boris!!!

[Mike Bell]

And I’ve learned a new word- prorogue.....

[Peter Mallett]

There are heads exploding all over twitter. In particular Joe Saward is advocating a new vote because people have died. He's gone silent so I haven't had the opportunity to remind him that after the referendum there was a GE which served to confirm the leave position.

[midgetman]

I did love that Gina woman saying Boris is closing parliament for five weeks. Err no dear, Boris is closing it for four days the other four weeks are for junket season

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[Peter Mallett]

Yes and for that 4 days there are judicial reviews being undertaken. Think of the costs.

[midgetman]

It's ok there's one MP who's going to sit in the House until the police drag him out. Hahahahaha what a pointless thing to do. Our current legislators are really low quality.

What'll be interesting to see is if this is all one big power play or if withdrawal goes ahead. The EU take Boris seriously now, but they're boxed in as much as we are because they can't be seen to back down. This is the first time someone has played hard ball, I wonder if they'll blink?



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[Peter Mallett]

It is interesting from that PoV. If the EU blinks it will throw Varadkar under the bus and that would encourage other states to withdraw/exit, so they can't do that. However, Germany and France have realized that with the right deal, their market (the UK), may still be accessible. And there is the EU's problem because these two have basically defined EU policy for the last thirty years.

[Mike Bell]

According to the beeb this morning our Government advertising campaign 'How to prepare for breakfast' starts today. Or did I mis-hear that....?

[midgetman]

I tell you what. The much missed Terry Wogan would have had a lot of fun with "mis-hearings" like this....

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[coppice]

Question for the Boris fan club - if it were Corbyn proroguing Parliament to further his agenda, would you be equally magnaminous ?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by coppice

Question for the Boris fan club - if it were Corbyn proroguing Parliament to further his agenda, would you be equally magnaminous ?

And in a similar vein for the Corbyn fan club - if it were Corbyn proroguing Parliament to further his agenda, would you be equally unsacrificing?

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

Question for the Boris fan club - if it were Corbyn proroguing Parliament to further his agenda, would you be equally magnaminous ?

You are addressing your question to the wrong audience. I doubt if there is much of a 'Boris Fan Club' just a lot of people, indeed a majority of people, who simply want to leave the EU, under any circumstances. Parliament has had quite long enough to sort out a 'deal' but has preferred to try and thwart our exit. Parliament has failed in it's duty, so cutting it out of the negotiations is the right thing to do. The blat about a failure of 'Democracy' while totally ignoring the will of the electorate. To Corbyn et al it is all about gaining power for themselves. That is their definition of 'democracy'.

Personally I doubt there is more than a couple of dozen MP's I would be willing to shake hands with. The vast majority I would not empty my bladder over if they were on fire.

OK! I do get very cross about the way Westminster has behaved.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I tell you what. The much missed Terry Wogan would have had a lot of fun with "mis-hearings" like this....

Dear Terry. I wonder what he would have made of all this.....

[delta]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Dear Terry. I wonder what he would have made of all this.....

It would start like this "Janet and John go on a trip to Westminster".

[The Fat Clerk]

Personally I doubt there is more than a couple of dozen MP's I would be willing to shake hands with. The vast majority I would not empty my bladder over if they were on fire.

OK! I do get very cross about the way Westminster has behaved.

You, me and several million others. to think we used to moan about the way the MSA was run.

[bauble]

A barber opened up a shop in a busy high street, on his first day he was chatting to a customer who said he ran the local bakers. The barber refused payment because they were both in business. Next morning the barber found, a bag of buns on his doorstep. Another customer owned the near by green grocers, and once again the barber refused payment, the next morning he found a box of apples on his front step. The same thing happened with the local milkman, and he found a pint of fresh cream outside his door the next day.
On another day his MP dropped in for a haircut, and the barber told him as he was an MP there was no charge. The next day he found a dozen MP's queueing outside his shop.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bauble

A barber opened up a shop in a busy high street, on his first day he was chatting to a customer who said he ran the local bakers. The barber refused payment because they were both in business. Next morning the barber found, a bag of buns on his doorstep. Another customer owned the near by green grocers, and once again the barber refused payment, the next morning he found a box of apples on his front step. The same thing happened with the local milkman, and he found a pint of fresh cream outside his door the next day.
On another day his MP dropped in for a haircut, and the barber told him as he was an MP there was no charge. The next day he found a dozen MP's queueing outside his shop.

[coppice]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

And in a similar vein for the Corbyn fan club - if it were Corbyn proroguing Parliament to further his agenda, would you be equally unsacrificing?

I am no Corbynista (heaven forfend) but I'd treat any prorogation for transparently political ends with contempt .



And as for the 'parliamantary democracy doesn't work so let's have a strong man instead ' argument history suggest that rarely ends well .

[Peter Mallett]

Surely the Brexit situation is not a "political end". It's not as if they are doing it to delay Brexit, they are doing it to achieve the mandated end. A bit different don't you think?

But this is what it's all about: I'm selling my car for £50k, you come along and look at it, you are interested I say I want £50k but I'll accept anything you offer. Would that make sense when you offer me a fiver?

But, if I say its £50k or I'm not selling. You have the choice, either walk away or pay the price.

It's called negotiation and taking away the walk away option is not only naive it's, in this case, downright illegal. Nobody has the mandate to expose the UK to what is vassalage.

[midgetman]

To be honest Peter I'm getting to the position that l "vasselage" or even Federal State cannot be worse than the absolute **** show we have at the moment. We have such low quality legislators, they've all been run rings round by the EU.

The referendum was a poor campaign. The election was a poor campaign. The negotiation was a poor campaign. That's not the fault of we the people, that is totally laid at the feet of our low-quality "ruling class."

It's not even a case of voting one lot out and getting something better. This whole mess - suspended parliament, low pound, protest on the streets, friends set against friends to name but a few problems - has been totally caused by ineffectual politicians of all shades. There are no leaders out there when we desparately need one.

Run a vibrant, independent country outside Europe? I wouldn't even trust this lot to run a bath.

So I'm beginning to admire the EU, who turned up to the negotiations with their ducks in a row, knowing what they wanted and totally getting it. Men like Barnier and Juncker are clearly superior to the Muppets we put up.

With the result that we are where we are now. Politicians calling for a "deal" when the only "deal" available is the one they rejected. Are they stupid? The EU has repeatedly said there is no other deal.

It's going to take decades to recover from the damage caused by the last three years. We could have been building a great future, but no they've ****** it up.

How on earth will this period be viewed in history? How can anything be any worse?

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[Peter Mallett]

I agree 100% but the issue is that the last three years were screwed up by remain leaning MPs, and a Prime Minister, who gave not one toss for the referendum. Just because it was badly run does not make it less valid. And before anyone starts, the government stated it would accept the result, thus unlike most referendums(da?) it was not advisory.

Had it been remain nothing would have changed, but leave won it and thus it needs to be honoured.

[coppice]

When the definitive book on Brexit is written , there will be a section discussing how terms such as 'vassalage' and 'prorogue' had a brief moment in the sun before disappearing back to the dusty vault occupied by Mr Rees Mogg and his ilk .

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

It's going to take decades to recover from the damage caused by the last three years. We could have been building a great future, but no they've ****** it up.

How on earth will this period be viewed in history? How can anything be any worse?

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It may not matter.

There has been little or no real recovery from the global economic trauma of 2008 as yet. Some drip trays and a lot of filler deployed but 11 years of desperate measures to appear to deliver some 'stability'.

Brexit, for all parties most likely, is one nice distracting side show that may give opportunities for placing blame on things that are irrelevant and introducing changes that have deeper significance.

It seems to be mostly about procedures rather than adaptation to change as circumstances change.

Against that the underlying shift is all about global changes in the way things "work". (Or don't work depending on your POV.)

Humans (and most of the things that we refer to as being 'alive' on the surface of the planet) are used to change and, by and large, pretty good at it.

Trying to eliminate the idea of working with on-the-fly adaptation and replace it with some objectives that are more rigidly bureaucratic and intended to follow pre-selected objectives that may not take into account ever varying needs for adjustments may not be the best approach to address all of the 'known' concerns let alone those that have yet to be clearly identified and packaged for public consumption.

In the overall scheme of things I have come to wonder whether Brexit is nothing more than side-show that has inadvertently been licensed to perform and would have been reversed earlier but for it being an interesting diversion to distract attention from more significant challenges.

If so the outcome may not matter much in the medium term.

Meanwhile it provides the Parish Council in the Palace of Westminster (a crumbling edifice that should be put out of its misery rather than rebuilt at huge cost) with something to fight over and thus distract the population from the more significant economic reality that may be close to arriving like a tsunami - almost invisible but unstoppable.

[midgetman]

I don't think Brexit is a side show. I think it's been taken up by disaffected people on both sides and blown out of all proportion. This country has been bubbling away for years and it's become the flag for all the different factions to formate around.

We all know a withdrawal would not be as bad as the Remainers have us believe. We also have a suspicion that staying would not be as bad as hard line Leavers have us believe. Somewhere in between is the British way, but unfortunately social media and the need for 24 hour news has whipped everyone up into a frenzy and we are polarised. The Rabble has been unleashed on both sides. I don't think it's going to fizzle out.

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[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

When the definitive book on Brexit is written , there will be a section discussing how terms such as 'vassalage' and 'prorogue' had a brief moment in the sun before disappearing back to the dusty vault occupied by Mr Rees Mogg and his ilk .

Clearly good manners, wisdom and whit, combined with a razor sharp mind, and complete grasp of the subject under discussion, are not values highly thought of in some circles.