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Old 5 May 2015, 00:37 (Ref:3534156)   #2551
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in the 'old days', winning Le Mans was the top goal.

In the 'new days', winning Le Mans is the top goal.
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Old 5 May 2015, 04:05 (Ref:3534190)   #2552
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According to the pictures of cars (maybe preparing for LM) in their twitter look like high d/f package. Have they decided not to use their low d/f package?
BTW I think their NA V8 engine may have at least 100 ps less power than competitors, which is a big problem.
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Old 5 May 2015, 16:08 (Ref:3534383)   #2553
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If Mclarem could win in 95', so can Toyota. In 15' However, I don't think that will be the case as they are only running 2 cars against 9 other factory LMP1s, so they would need to be EXTREMELY lucky.
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Old 5 May 2015, 16:25 (Ref:3534393)   #2554
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
According to the pictures of cars (maybe preparing for LM) in their twitter look like high d/f package. Have they decided not to use their low d/f package?
BTW I think their NA V8 engine may have at least 100 ps less power than competitors, which is a big problem.
I think there is no way that the difirance would be that big. If we say that porshe has 600ps, than Toyota would have 500, that would mean that Toyotas engine is 17% less efficient.

I am just glad that Porsche came in to the LMP1 with the petrol engine. Imagine if they didn't, all would be screaming that the rules masively favour diesel cars.
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Old 5 May 2015, 17:26 (Ref:3534416)   #2555
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The auto industry has done a great job at instilling to the general public that Turbo>No Turbo. In the end the only advantage this engines have over a N/A engine of a similar power rating is low end grunt.

They are not more efficient ( a lot of reasons including massive increase exhaust backpressure, needing richer mixture, and lower CR), they cost more, have more reliability problems, and are more expensive to maintain.

The engine was never the problem, and is this year their strongest point in a otherwise very poor package.
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Old 5 May 2015, 19:17 (Ref:3534444)   #2556
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Recent Toyota roadcar engine development looks like this:
- 1.2 turbo with 36% efficiency
- 1.3 NA engine with 38% efficiency
- Future Hybrid NA engine with 40% efficiency

But the fact is that peak efficiency can be of no use if it's in the range where engine is rarely used. For a race car oversized engine could get you better usable efficiency but it will also add too much weight to the car. If the rules would cut down fuel flows I think Toyota could benefit the most, but this year exactly opposite happened, fuel flow was increased, admitably very little but it was.
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Old 5 May 2015, 21:52 (Ref:3534517)   #2557
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Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel View Post
I don't know if this was posted before, but there is an interesting interview of Anthony Davidson from Sportscar Global (carried out at Spa after qualifying) giving away some information about the upcoming LM-spec car:

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SCG Understood a Private Test is scheduled for Spa prior to Le Mans Test, do Toyota have lots of developments specifically for Le Mans ?

AD We have a completely different Aero package for that one race, its quite narrowly tuned for that one race, so we can’t do what Audi are doing here by running the Le Mans package, but at a high enough level to survive round Spa. Its specifically tuned for the one track and I think that is why we are struggling a bit here because we are a bit out of the band where we need to be, we need less drag, but our Le Mans package can’t go as high as we need here. Last year we could, and we were properly optimised for this track, but arguably we did not have enough straight-line speed at Le Mans, we were over-winged for Le Mans, and if you look at the rest of 2014 particularly this race we almost optimised this race more than Le Mans. So we may suffer here, but will be a bit closer at Le Mans.

If you are within about a second away on average race pace you’re certainly in the fight at Le Mans, particularly these days with reliability paramount, last year’s attrition rate every car had a mechanical problem at some point, and the more complex the cars become the higher the chances of that happening, more than ever its less focus on pure speed and more about reliability.

So, expect a car that is specifically tailored to the LM track characteristics and, hopefully, with better performance and reliability.

We should possibly have a first look at the LM-spec car at the occasion of the upcoming Spa test on May 19th-20th.

Sorry but i can't agree with Davidson...

If we account qualifying right now Toyota is more close to 3 sec deficit for Porsche than 1 sec( a lot of work ahead).

And how can he say it was 'over-winged' in LM 2014 with that rear 'movable wing' ? ( and Toyota didn't really had a front wing)... Toyota had that advantage which was rather unfair, if the system worked properly or not is another story, but if they lacked top speed(always relative) i think the eyes should be turned at the engine...

Also 'reliability' issues arises because the focus specially since last year has been pure speed and worry about 'issues' later... nobody seems to want to be behind and clock a pace, Toyota should know, they started 2014 LM as if qualifying, and Audi only managed to win in spite of problems because of this ability to push all 24 hours long if needed (Diesel facilitates this a lot), they were always on the run to catch up since lap 1, they caused a lot of reliability problems to the competition(after when they finally managed to rest at 2 hours to the end) ... not only for themselfs...

... and 2014 LM was considerable faster than 2013, and this year records of speed and distance can be broken again by a large margin... if that is not focus on speed, can't imagine what could be!...

The problem is getting to the end alright... even if crawling... but as long is 'so far so good' i suspect it will be 'pedal to the metal', and this year even more, inclusive for Toyota..
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Old 5 May 2015, 22:13 (Ref:3534526)   #2558
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Originally Posted by tomazy View Post
I think there is no way that the difirance would be that big. If we say that porshe has 600ps, than Toyota would have 500, that would mean that Toyotas engine is 17% less efficient.

I am just glad that Porsche came in to the LMP1 with the petrol engine. Imagine if they didn't, all would be screaming that the rules masively favour diesel cars.
Relative... only if they only manage the same distance (nº of laps) then its that less efficient... otherwise is only less powerful ->and that it really is, to be more powerful that NA needs to augment RPM, above 15K rpm could be achievable in that arch as example(now goes 9K rpm), but with 8 cylinders firing can only imagine then efficiency go to trash, and fuel penalties flooding...

So a NA, as any other engine can be quite efficient, on its best operating band -> which could not compare favorably to other engine archs ( a turbo as example) in terms of torque/power, on their best operating bands...

NA more efficient but less powerful, need to push for more power then can became quite less efficient (a catch22)... of course the 'marketing' only focus on the more rosy numbers...
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Old 5 May 2015, 22:18 (Ref:3534530)   #2559
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
In 2013, Toyota would have finished on the same lap as the winning car if Buemi hadn't respectfully created the photo finish. The TS030 was, on the evidence of the races before Le Mans and even the pace shown in race week, even further behind its rivals than the 2015 spec TS040.
Yeah but for 2013 LM they got extra fuel and faster refueling restrictor by crying to ACO, and also it was just 3 car opposition instead of 6(-9) like now.

This is the toughest one for them by far. In 2012 debut not much was expected of them anyway and they didn't make Nissan-promises either
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Old 5 May 2015, 22:52 (Ref:3534542)   #2560
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They cried to the ACO? More like proved a point about the advantage diesel fuel has. Diesel has an efficiency advantage by quite some margin, probably close to 5%. You cant overcome that in one season, not unless you too use diesel. The same crowd writing off Toyota said tge same thing about Audi last year. Just because theyre off pace in Spa doesnt mean the same will happen at Le Mans. I think theyll be in contention. Maybe not as fast as Porsche in qualifying, but I think itll definitely be a race.

Hiro, the pictures you see on Toyotas twitter are of the high downforce car. Davidson explained the LM car is unique to that track. Plus, those diveplanes werent even used, so they could be just putting the car up for show.
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Old 5 May 2015, 23:00 (Ref:3534546)   #2561
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They cried to the ACO? More like proved a point about the advantage diesel fuel has. Diesel has an efficiency advantage by quite some margin, probably close to 5%. You cant overcome that in one season, not unless you too use diesel.
This doesn't sound like crying to you?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107259

Also what Ullrich said there.
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Old 5 May 2015, 23:24 (Ref:3534551)   #2562
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They cried to the ACO? More like proved a point about the advantage diesel fuel has. Diesel has an efficiency advantage by quite some margin, probably close to 5%. You cant overcome that in one season, not unless you too use diesel. The same crowd writing off Toyota said tge same thing about Audi last year. Just because theyre off pace in Spa doesnt mean the same will happen at Le Mans. I think theyll be in contention. Maybe not as fast as Porsche in qualifying, but I think itll definitely be a race.

Hiro, the pictures you see on Toyotas twitter are of the high downforce car. Davidson explained the LM car is unique to that track. Plus, those diveplanes werent even used, so they could be just putting the car up for show.
What stops Toyota from using diesel ?

By that logic everybody should be on diesel... its an inherent *NATURAL* advantage... and if the FIA/ACO press releases/papers from then to now focus with particular emphases on efficiency, penalizing what is *naturally* more efficient isn't it a gross contradiction ?? ... for an unnatural attempt to balance what is not naturally balanced ??

So it would had been only *natural* top teams on diesel engines... Dr. Ulrich probably had been retired by now...
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Old 5 May 2015, 23:35 (Ref:3534554)   #2563
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oops .. old story lol

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Old 6 May 2015, 00:42 (Ref:3534569)   #2564
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The same crowd writing off Toyota said tge same thing about Audi last year. Just because theyre off pace in Spa doesnt mean the same will happen at Le Mans. I think theyll be in contention. Maybe not as fast as Porsche in qualifying, but I think itll definitely be a race.
Audi was mainly slow in qualifying, last year. Their race pace was quite good and they showed that at Le Mans with the fastest stints. I'm quite confident Toyota will be far from making the fastest stint of the race.
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Old 6 May 2015, 01:14 (Ref:3534577)   #2565
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The Toyota still goes faster down the straights than the Audi. That's the only thing that matters. Despite the dramatic crucifying in this thread, I'm sure we'll all be eating out words or something to that effect.

I think we all have been underestimating how easy it is to look extremely bad. It could be one big thing or many small things to create big problems. For Toyota the aero package looks to have issues because the drivers are understeering out of the track boundaries at every opportunity. Give the Le Mans aero a chance. Toyota will sort the aero out.

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Old 6 May 2015, 01:34 (Ref:3534583)   #2566
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The Toyota still goes faster down the straights than the Audi. That's the only thing that matters.
Straight line speed is the only thing that matters?

Kolles also goes faster on straights than the (sprint-)Audi and is close to other non-Porsche P1s too, but that doesn't mean anything if the package doesn't work anywhere else.
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Old 6 May 2015, 03:16 (Ref:3534595)   #2567
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This doesn't sound like crying to you?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107259

Also what Ullrich said there.
No, it sounds like the truth, not "crying". Lets take a look at the quotes-
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"We are not happy with the situation and if we are not happy it is because we know we cannot fight them," he told AUTOSPORT. "As it is, our chances at Le Mans are very, very small."
"We consider that an evolution of the BoP is needed," he said. "The process [to change it] exists, it is underway and we will have to see what it delivers.
"We do not underestimate how difficult it is for the FIA and the ACO to do it right, but we believe that they want to do it right."
Not seeing the crying there. To me it looked like Vasselon knew bop was coming because he says the process for bop existed, then it was confirmed by the ACO sports manager, Vincent Beaumesnil.

Later on in the write up, he explains what Audi were doing, using more fuel to go faster. Since they had the same size fuel tank as the previous year, what other reason could there be for going less laps per stint? Im not trying to argue with you, but I dont see how Toyota were crying for bop when they knew an adjustment was going to be made.
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Audi was mainly slow in qualifying, last year. Their race pace was quite good and they showed that at Le Mans with the fastest stints. I'm quite confident Toyota will be far from making the fastest stint of the race.
Toyota didnt make it through the night with the #7, and the #8 was damaged. I think they could have gone faster in the early hours too. Hopefully youre wrong about this year

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Straight line speed is the only thing that matters?

Kolles also goes faster on straights than the (sprint-)Audi and is close to other non-Porsche P1s too, but that doesn't mean anything if the package doesn't work anywhere else.
It should be great for Le Mans, maybe they can fight with Nissan
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Old 6 May 2015, 07:40 (Ref:3534637)   #2568
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The BoP is locked until post Le Mans now isn't it?
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Old 6 May 2015, 08:49 (Ref:3534659)   #2569
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The Toyota still goes faster down the straights than the Audi. That's the only thing that matters.
where did you get that one from? i think there was no similar setup between audi and toyota to compare so far. i too believe toyota will be more competitive at le mans than they were at spa (probably something like silverstone, where they still seemed to be somewhat on pace with porsche and audi), on the other hand the audi seems incredibly quick in race trim. actually, if we look back at all the years audi have not had pole position at le mans or other races, it's surprising in how many of them they have the fastest race lap, and many times, by quite a good margin and usually, faster than their qualifying lap. looking at the ideal le mans lap times last year, audi's ideal race lap is faster even than toyota's ideal qualiyfing lap! i think they know the eyes of aco are on them more than anybody else, since they won le mans so many times so they're the favorites to get slowed down, that's why they don't make any opulent qualifying runs, but in the race, they're almost always the quickest or at least close enough to the fastest car. i'm not sure either porsche or audi have shown all they've got for le mans, i think toyota will improve, but audi and porsche might improve too.
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Old 6 May 2015, 12:50 (Ref:3534714)   #2570
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The BoP is locked until post Le Mans now isn't it?
Indeed, the EoT is frozen until after LM. In any event, Porsche's performance will not help Toyota's cause as the EoT is only meant to balance the best-in-class technologies in each fuel category.
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Old 6 May 2015, 14:15 (Ref:3534750)   #2571
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Not sure if this has been posted before:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118808
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Old 6 May 2015, 17:55 (Ref:3534846)   #2572
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Not sure if this has been posted before:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118808
Not sure if that's needlessly pessimistic, or a poor attempt at mind games.
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Old 6 May 2015, 18:15 (Ref:3534852)   #2573
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Not sure if that's needlessly pessimistic, or a poor attempt at mind games.
Indeed.
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Old 6 May 2015, 18:28 (Ref:3534858)   #2574
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gustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
TOYOTA are really in position to Win Le mans this year

Mind games or just PR stuff, toyota are in the position that Audi was last year the underdog…

I don´t know why but…. they will blown us away with their LM package

Mr. Rob Leupen is putting the pressure on Audi and Porsche side… and he want them to fight each other to let Toyota do their game

Bit this is just a guess

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Old 6 May 2015, 18:48 (Ref:3534863)   #2575
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Ask Autosport, who most likely posed the question!

From back in the prologue, Toyota was only 4kmh down on Porsche's top speed. They were also one of the first to do a 1:39. I dont know if Toyota is keeping their cards close. Apparently they made a very low drag car that wouldnt work so good at Spa. But Anthony also said its a package thats designed just for LM. Those two things give me confidence they should be a lot more competitive. I think every car from the current 3 will be under 3:17 or 3:16. I hope Nissan is there in the sub 3:20's.
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