Britcar Thruxton

james tucker · 8 Aug 2003, 16:22 (Ref:683011)

Britcar Thruxton 27TH SEPTEMBER
# 2 Beighton/Finnemore 0 MARCOS GTN 1 4500
# 3 Peter.Seldon/Eugen.O'Brian 0 BMW E46 GTR 1 3500
# 4 Daniels Msp 0 FIESTA 1800 4 1800
# 5 Andrew.Allen/David.Kempton/ 0 BMW E46 2 3500
# 7 Andrew.Grant/Antony.Mott 0 BMW E30 DTM 2 2500
# 9 Mark.Newman/Nigel.Rata 0 MARCOS GTN 1 4500
# 12 Michael Symons/ 0 BMW E30 M3 3 2300
## 14 Nigel Mustell/ 0## NISSAN SKYLINE 1 2800(T)
## 15 Rick.Kremer/Kremmer 0## FOCUS BTCC/B 2 2000
# 16 Mark.Lemmer/Simon.Graves 0 HONDA CIVIC.R 3 2000
# 18 John.Cowgill/Calum.Lockie 0 BMW E36 2 3000
# 19 Stephen.Hirst/Jim.Pocklington 0 AUDI BTCC 4W 1 2000
# 20 Giles.Groombridge/David.Smith 0 ALFA 156 4 2000
# 23 G.Groombridge/R.Bouzouba 0 LOTUS ELISE 2 1800
# 27 Andrew.Davies/Martin.Parsons 0 MARCOS GTN 1 4500
# 28 ABG MSP Rod.Carman ## PORSCHE 911RSR 1 3500
# 30 Peter.Hands/Matt.Brooks 0 FIESTA 1800 4 1800
## 32 Jason.Hughes 0## VECTRA 16 V 3 2800
# 33 Alex.Frick/Terry.Flatt 0 VW BEETLE RS 3 2800
#p 34 John.Hammersley/A.Dunlop/ 0 MG ZR I60 4 1800
# 35 Fiona.Leggate/Don.Kettelbourgh/ 0 MG ZR I60 GRA 3 1800
# 36 John.George/Phil.Bennett 0 HONDA INT R 3 1800
# 37 John.Clonis/David.Streater 0 PORSCHE 911RSR 2 3600
# 39 Don Norchi 0 Volvo S60 TS 3 2000(T)
# 40 N.Stephens/TBA 0 BMW E30 M3 3 2300
# 41 Elliott 0 CLIO 16V 4 1800
## 42 willie moore ## BMWE36 GT 1 3200
## 43 Ben.Salmon/Jon.Harrison 0## MG ZR 160 4 1800
# 46 P.Knee 0 BMW E36 M3 2 3200
# 48 Bravo Msp 0 BMW M3 E36 2 3000
# 49 Michael.Mcinerney/Sean.Mcinerney 0 HONDA INT R 3 2000
# 52 R.Miens/D.Smail/ 0 BMW E46 2 3200
# 53 Robin Ward 355 ferrari 0 FERRARI 355 2 3500
# 55 Andy.Rouse/Julian.Rouse 0 MERC DTM 1 2500
# 56 Ian.Mitchell/ 0 BMW E36 M3 2 3200
# 60 John.Danby/Matt.Manderson 0 DARRION GT3 1 2800(T)
# 61 John.Ballentine/.Ballentine 0 PROTON COUPE 4 1800
# 63 David.Macmillan/Nigel.Greensall 0 PORSCHE 964 1 3800
# 66 Peter Gillatt 0 VECTRA 16 V 3 2800
# 69 John.Frankel/ 0 CLIO 16V 4 1800
# 75 A.Allen/D.Kempton/ 0 BMW Z3 2 3000
# 78 John.Tilesley 0 MORGAN 8 1
## 85 Bernie.Bowden/Andy.Bowden/ 0## CAVALIER 16V 3 2000
# 93 Damax 0 FERRARI 355 2 3500
## 94 Alistair.Ingliss 0## BMW E36 M3 2 3200
# 99 Martin.Rogers/Matt.Potter 0 CLIO 16V 4 1800
number booked 38
number required 40

james tucker · 8 Aug 2003, 16:29 (Ref:683016)

The largest grid of the season/40 acrs to start...
Driver changes/refueling..
speed limits/ speed gun...
pace car/rolling start...
1x brit GT champion.
9x ex or current touring car drivers.
1x Boss formula 1 Champion..
Sky Tv..
BBC South Today..

Steve Wood · 8 Aug 2003, 19:47 (Ref:683211)

This has got to be the most impressive entry list for any race, any series, in the UK this year, or for many a year.

Skyline, Focus, Volvo, Morgan all new to the series, and still room for 2 more ! The Minis, maybe ?

One day people will realise what they're missing. I wonder how much coverage the nationals will give this race ?

**Craig** · 8 Aug 2003, 19:52 (Ref:683216)

Is the Lemmer/Graves car one of those that Barwell are running in the BTC-P this year?

Also what is the history of the Steve Hirst car? Is it the car that raced in France or is it one of the BTCC cars? If so any idea which one?

Steve Wood · 8 Aug 2003, 19:53 (Ref:683218)

Let's hope that Sky do a better job on this than they did on the Willhire. I guess the number of cameras will be limited, and there will be 2 obvious points where the action will take place, so let's have them there. And only show in-car when it's interesting - not Phil Bennetts view of the sun. And a decent, informed, correct commentary - Mr Marriott, do your homework.

Steve Wood · 8 Aug 2003, 20:05 (Ref:683229)

I think the Barwell Honda is a different car to the BTC-P, but I'm not 100% certain

The Audi is the one being campaigned in Formula Saloons - it's got the Auto Trader number panels, but again, I'm not sure of it's provenance.

Mr Tucker ?

**Craig** · 8 Aug 2003, 20:20 (Ref:683242)

Interesting! I presumed, with the BTCC season finishing the weekend before this meeting, that they were just gonna run one of their cars.

Not sure of the origins of the Hirst Audi. I know last year's car wasn't ex-BTCC but he did get hold of a new car for this season. If James cannot answer then I wonder if Rod Birley or one of the other competitors in the Formula Saloons can shed some light?

chezza · 8 Aug 2003, 20:27 (Ref:683246)

Thats one hell of a list...lets hope the race is as good as it sounds on paper!

**Craig** · 8 Aug 2003, 20:51 (Ref:683266)

How can you have Ferrari 355s and Porsche 911s competing in the same race as a Proton Coupe?!

jase · 8 Aug 2003, 20:53 (Ref:683269)

Looks like a good entry. I'll be there.

wyzard · 8 Aug 2003, 23:46 (Ref:683371)

Craig you will be surprise at the pace of the proton!

Take a look at the results before passing judgement

TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU HAVE TO FINISH!

**Craig** · 9 Aug 2003, 05:56 (Ref:683452)

Possibly but they're hardly similar are they? It's a bit like that yellow shopping trolley that 'races' in the Britisg GTs now... weird!

james tucker · 9 Aug 2003, 07:40 (Ref:683486)

the trolley will be back to Britcar..
the Audi is Frank Biela's car....
the Barwell Civic is a BTCC/B car...
Kremer/Kremer are looking at thier BTCC/B car...

Steve Wood · 9 Aug 2003, 08:38 (Ref:683510)

Craig, the fact that Ferraris, Porsches and Marcoses compete with Protons, Fiestas and Clios is one of the most attractive features of Britcar. Think how much lapping the big boys have to do in a 100 minute race. Getting through the traffic (and the little 'uns watching their mirrors and keeping out of trouble) makes for exciting racing. It's like a mini-Le Mans, every month.
You get the would-be winner sometimes retiring half-way through, the blokes who start last getting on the class podium, you get triumph and tragedy, you get hopes, fears, laughter, tears, all on a Saturday afternoon, then you can relax on the Sunday, or go to another race meeting !

British motorsport's best kept secret, unfortunately.

madhouse · 9 Aug 2003, 16:02 (Ref:683729)

How can you start 40 cars when the circuit licence only allows 34 starters. Is this not the old trick of putting lots of names down to look good and then making viable excuses when for withdrawels when the final entries are done. I know Mr Tucker was guilty of this quite a bit last year.
Steve I notice on another thread that you are slating the TV coverage, I saw it and I thought that it was pretty good, they made a good job of making endurance racing watchable. Normally it is like watching paint dry. I also do not think it is a good idea to slate the production company in a public forum. It is alot more proffesional to complain to them.
Finally if the entry list is believable then it looks like it is getting to be good because like Craig I feel that there are too many slow cars like the Protons etc. This does not make for exciting races as suggested as there is nothing exciting to watch a Merc lap a Fiesta and I am sure it is no challenge for the driver.

Steve Wood · 9 Aug 2003, 21:36 (Ref:683882)

Were you at Snetterton for the Willhire, madhouse ?

So your kangaroo court has found James Tucker "guilty" , presumably of trying to engender interest in a fledgling series. I'll take your word for it, but if Thruxton can only run 34 cars, and Britcar gets that 34 and not 40, isn't that some sort of achievement in this current climate ?

Did Craig say that there were too many slow cars ? I thought he asked how Porsches and Ferraris can race with Protons.

You have decided that Britcar does not make for exciting racing, as I have suggested, and you are "sure" that lapping Fiestas is no challenge for a driver. Andy and Julian told you that , did they ?

Finally, regarding the Sky coverage, since I haven't made a penny through my involvement in motor sport, I can truly say that I am not a professional, so I can be un-professional with reckless abandon when the mood takes me.

MODERATOR - you may feel that this is going too far, and if so, I apologise unreservedly to you and forum readers, but, since Madhouse has publicly decried my methods and opinions, I feel that I deserve the right to reply.
Thank you.

madhouse · 9 Aug 2003, 22:35 (Ref:683897)

Steve, seeing as you are very touchy as far as other peoples opionins are concerned I will try not to hurt your feelings with my views. Firstly I should point out I do think Britcar is a good series and yes if you get 34 cars then that is good but you have not answered my question as to why you there could be 40. As to Mr Tucker I think he is obviously doing a very good job but does not need to stoop to those sort of tactics when he is getting very good grids anyway.
Craig may not have said the excact words but I felt that he implied it.
I have seen 5 Britcar races and as far as I am concerned it is boring. This doesn't make it a bad series as cars on grid are the proof of the pudding, just do not try to make it out to be something it is not.( good veiwing )
I do not have to speak to Andy or Julian to know it is no challenge to lap a fiesta in a lot faster car, you do not have to get run over by a bus to know it will hurt.
You do not have to have earned any money out of motorracing to act in a professional manner, I just do not think that is the way to acheive anything if you are trying to help Britcar.
Steve I hope that you can take the above on board and not seemingly fly of the handle.

james tucker · 10 Aug 2003, 08:50 (Ref:684066)

the list does generally shorten before a race for a number of reasons.car/driver/family....illness etc.etc...
I have a special licence to run more cars than in the blue book from the MSA...
11/2hrs....15%
3hrs........20%
5hrs........25%
and 46 for Snett in next years 24 hr race...
the Dunlop/Arriva/Willhire24hr
to start with a clean sheet of paper and design a new series has been a challenge which has taken 7 years and most people are constructive but the evaluate each comment
and let the longterm plan work its course..'madhouse' may
wish to help you Steve, and then he would khow more....
sportingly
james

Steve Wood · 10 Aug 2003, 10:23 (Ref:684143)

Madhouse, most people on this forum manage to let series/championships exist without the need to berate their intentions. There are many series that I wouldn't give tuppence for, and some where the hype exceeds the status, but the participants are obviously enjoying them, so let it be.
Your implication was that James and myself were wrong, and you were right - apparently you "knew Mr Tucker was guilty", "this does not make for exciting racing", and you are "sure that this is not a challenge for the driver" - all implications of fact rather than opinion.
You might want to adopt the "professional" approach that you so advocate by writing to James Tucker and myself personally rather than slating him, me, and series publicly.

As for Sky, I pay my subscription, so as a consumer, I'll complain in the public domain, professional or not, if they deliver sub-standard product.

James, thanks for the offer, but I think we want positive input for Britcar, not to destroy it from within.

MODERATOR - again, apologies if this is getting out of hand, this is definitely my last defence of sound reasoning.

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Aug 2003, 11:03 (Ref:684163)

Personally I like the idea of mixing up the cars. I'm entered in a race at Spa which does just that.

I had at one time harboured the idea of running in the Marcos cup but apart from funding, the championship disappeared. Now if I had the cash and a reasonable car was available I would have somewhere to play!

Good luck to Britcar.

That said I'm a competitor and not a spectator. If I'm the other side of the fence my views may well differ.

redshoes · 10 Aug 2003, 13:15 (Ref:684215)

Quote:

Originally posted by james tucker
the trolley will be back to Britcar..
the Audi is Frank Biela's car....
the Barwell Civic is a BTCC/B car...
Kremer/Kremer are looking at thier BTCC/B car...

If it's the same car they had out at the Snet 4hr's Barwell's Civic is a specially built 'Group N' endurance spec car, not a BTCC car.

Steve Hurst's Audi is liveried as an ex-Biela BTCC car but it's not the real thing. As I recall it's an ex-French/Belgium TCC machine.

**Craig** · 10 Aug 2003, 13:54 (Ref:684231)

I believe that he has a new car since then - there are now two Audis kicking around in FSaloons IIRC?

ern · 10 Aug 2003, 14:11 (Ref:684239)

Steve sold his ex Biela 95 car to Tony Brass, I think his new car is a 97 A4 that ran (as stated by redshoes) in France.

Both now run in Formula Saloons.

**Craig** · 10 Aug 2003, 14:36 (Ref:684247)

Ah, got them muddled then! Thought the 'replica' was the first of the two.

redshoes · 10 Aug 2003, 14:41 (Ref:684252)

Both cars are in BTCC livery.
Second row in pic - http://www.redshoes-archive.com/Pict...fo.cgi?ID=3746
The 'new' car is the one in the middle with the yellow mirrors.

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