Steel Cranks for FF1600

[Athgoe Racing]

If you get the steel crank into the regs the Irish and N.I champs will follow as well because we run on your regs at the moment. So how can it be changed, its long over due. Ford has no say now, just the drivers and the drivers have given their answer i think.

[GolddustMini]

Originally posted by blue nose
When I have had rebuilds the crank has always been scraped.

but you said on another thread your engine hasnt been rebuilt for 4 years, so really everythings getting a little tired by then....

[blue nose]

It has not had a rebuild for four years and still feels good but when it does have one the crank will be scrap but if it had a steel one it would be ok.

[blue nose]

Thats if it lasts the next few races.

[GolddustMini]

Originally posted by blue nose
but if it had a steel one it would be ok.

have you actually done extensive research into this? as you seem to be absolutely and 100% positive that if u fitted a steel crank you would suddenly solve all of lifes problems.....

[blue nose]

It would do what it says on the tin....save our engines the yanks have done all the reserch for us.

[Ian Sowman]

With apologies for the long post, I reproduce part of an email I received from John Merriman at the start of this year. John races FF1600 in the States and here outlines some of the technical changes in the US:

I have been racing in Club Ford here in New England for 22 years. My first car was a VanDiemen RF76 which I purchased from Richard Peacock when I was working in London from 1981-1983. I am an active participant in efforts to revive the class and we have seen some recent growth in entries and general interest over the past few years. Up here in the northeast part of the country we are fortunate to have fairly large fields – sometimes over thirty cars at Lime Rock, New Hampshire International and Watkins Glen. I am also a member of the SCCA Formula Car Advisory Committee. This group pulls information and comments together and provides it to the Club Racing Board which is the technical committee within SCCA that oversees rules changes and adjustments, etc.



One of the major moves we made had to do with assuring the supply of Kent engine parts which were becoming very scarce here. Since Ford ceased production, we convinced the SCCA to approve any aftermarket part which is made of the same material and which is dimensionally consistent with OEM. This has resulted in the production of crankshafts, camshafts, flywheels and a few other miscellaneous parts. Soon we will have a forged piston which will last ten times longer than the standard AE version we are now using. The crankshafts – made by two different companies - are of stronger material and they have better journal fillet radii and will last literally for years – instead of for hours! Pierce produced an aluminum cylinder head – mostly for his Asian market – and we got that approved as well. It is an exact replica of OEM and flow work on it is now easier and less expensive. All of this has been a great benefit to the FF racing community because those who could not get parts previously – or for whom parts were too expensive – can now obtain any piece they need.



I know about Don Hilton’s group and its “rights” from Ford to produce approved parts and I have spoken with him about his parts production. Right now, I believe he makes crankshafts and cams but that all other parts are reconditioned – parts such as cylinder blocks, front and rear cover and others. I also understand that your various racing clubs still require that the Ford logo be on any part – as it was previously. We do not operate under that same limitation. Therefore, I think we may have a better situation with regard to competitive pricing and availability.



There is a major supplier here in the US – Pegasus Auto Racing - which handles the FFI (Hilton) parts but the costs are higher than the aftermarket parts we now have available. Perhaps Hilton’s “licensing” fees play into that. He sells his used blocks (sleeved) at $1,200 which is not too bad if the quality is high.



Our next major goal – after the pistons get approval – is to start cylinder block production. We’ve been working on this for about two years but as yet we have not been able to get any capable company to commit to take on the project. This is primarily due to the fairly small market – at present certainly no more than 200 per year – and the considerable costs which would have to be paid by the company up front. We think we could make a few very small improvements in the block – slightly stronger main webs, for example. Interestingly, once Pegasus heard about potential block production here, Hilton told them he might start making blocks, perhaps as early as late 2004. Have you heard anything about that? Are parts in general and blocks specifically any sort of problem there?

[blue nose]

This is the company which makes the steel crankshafts in the USA [url]www.scatcrankshafts.com

[blue nose]

I have just had an e mail from John Merriman which reads...
I gather you know about the new cranks we have available here-made legal a few years ago by SCCA.There are two sources-one is made by SCAT cranks in California and sold by the SCCA subsidiary"SCCA Enterprises"on a Chinese casting and the other is made in Germany for Dave Bean Engineering.The SCCA cranks can be soursed directly from SCCA or through any well known engine builder. I got one from J Ivey at Ivey engines in Portland Oregon for about $860. J preps then a bit more than he receives them, checks dimensions and balance and has them shot peened and he has sold over 100 of them. In general, the reports on the SCCA cranks are all positive, where as a great many negative reports have been heard on the Dave Bean cranks- mostly issues of dimensional inconsisencies.

If you go to the Dave Bean website,there is a long description of the metallurgy involved in his units and there is some discussion about"cast iron" vs "cast steel"-a topic which is covered on the old FFU site as well.I point this out only to make you aware of the subtleties of the definitions of cast iron vs cast steel which has been part of the process here.I believe the proper definition of the SCAT crank is "cast steel" but I am not 100% positive-without going back and looking up the various sources again myself.

I have been told by Jay Ivey that these new cranks should last for many years-perhaps ten years without a problem.The material is stronger and the radii at the jornals is more generous too.When the costs are being debated,many of us argued that even at$800 they were less expensive than OEM were because they would last three times as long and did not cost twice as much as the OEM.
You may know that we have a new rule on flywheel weight at 15.5 pounds,down from I think,19.5 pounds.This seems to make a considerable contribution to crankshaft longevity.Although there are those who argue that the lower weight results in a lot more power and quicker revsoff the corners,they are wrong!The engine is still "accellerating" 1,150 pounds of car and driver!!so the increased acceleration is miniscule anb cannot be perceived!!
I hope I have not been too long-winded to your straght forward quary!!!Please do keep me posted on your progress.
John Merriman
23rd Year in SCCA Club Ford
Member-SCCA Formula Car Advisory Committee
NER CF Committee
NER Lead Open Wheel Insructor

[StephenRae]

It seems the SCCA has adopted all of the changes we should have done years ago. All we need to do is copy their regulations and incorporate them into our championship rules. No need to ask Ford or anyone else, there is no performance advantage so if anyone strongly objects they can stick to the present regs.

[Athgoe Racing]

Yes i think thats the way to go, they seem to have ironed out all the problems. Sorry for the punn. It will cut costs in the long run and make the class stronger.

[blue nose]

So what would be the next step to put the change in place as it seems that most people on 10 -Tenths are in favour.
If Steve Burns could e mail every one with a vote we should know from the result who else is up for the change.

[Barny]

Not sure if alloy heads are necessary but I definitely think we should go the steel crank route and have alternative suppliers of camshafts/pistons.

Then all we need are some less expensive tyres and hey presto no one has any excuses for not dusting down their FF1600 and filling the grids!

[JustinDawkins]

Do you race FF1600 Barny?

[Barny]

Well I drive a FF1600, race might be overstating it in these circles!

[blue nose]

[i]Then all we need are some less expensive tyres and hey presto no one has any excuses for not dusting down their FF1600 and filling the grids! [/B]

Amen to that.

[blue nose]

[i]I have been told by Jay Ivey that these new cranks should last for many years-perhaps ten years without a problem.[/B]

Over to you Jamie

[blue nose]

I have had an e mail from Steve Burns to say he is contacting Bob Bassett to discuss a propsal on a change to the American rules on crankshafts.

[GolddustMini]

Originally posted by blue nose
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]I have been told by Jay Ivey that these new cranks should last for many years-perhaps ten years without a problem.[/B]
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Over to you Jamie
Over to you Jamie

Aol Keyword: SHOULD

[blue nose]

Originally posted by GolddustMini
Aol Keyword: SHOULD

Still its better than a maybe a season

[kartingdad]

Originally posted by blue nose
Still its better than a maybe a season

Absolutely.

It must be better to have a crank fail afte 'only' 8 years than a cast plasticine one go after 8 meetings!

[StephenRae]

I once had a con rod break which took out the block cam etc., damaged the twin cam head and managed to weld itself to the 'steel' crank. after a considerable ammount of hammer and chisel work and a ten thou regrind it was good for many more years at 8000+revs! I seem to remember it cost about £450 25years ago.

[JohnMiller]

Does that engine pass for a x-flow from the outside, and is it for sale?

I'm asking for a 'friend' of course.

[blue nose]

Originally posted by kartingdad
Absolutely.

It must be better to have a crank fail afte 'only' 8 years than a cast plasticine one go after 8 meetings!

Just think what we would save over the years!But the main thing is you know your engine is not going to go bang.
The poll shows its 25 drivers for it and 4 others against it, so it looks very very strongly that it is what we should do.The main thing is when we can have the rule put in place as I would like to do it over the winter and the best guy to get one from would be from Jay Ivey.

[kartingdad]

Why Jay Ivey?