Datalogging - Page 3

JohnMiller · 9 Jan 2007, 15:19 (Ref:1810449)

The logger part of the X-sport is the Delta Clubman, at least now it is.

greenamex2 · 9 Jan 2007, 15:53 (Ref:1810474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

The logger part of the X-sport is the Delta Clubman, at least now it is.

They do quite a nice little package including it and the display.

james s · 10 Jan 2007, 12:13 (Ref:1811292)

Why not have a look at the new Farringdon FD20 Logger at the Autosport Show. It seems to me, although I am biased, that it is very good value for money.

youngoldy · 11 Jan 2007, 12:47 (Ref:1812284)

Quote:

Originally Posted by james s

Why not have a look at the new Farringdon FD20 Logger at the Autosport Show. It seems to me, although I am biased, that it is very good value for money.

I wouldn't say you should be biased, by the sounds of it, Farringdon is the only type of Data logging peice of kit you have used, or have looked into 9more than any other that is)

I have used Xsport, and recently started using the Race Technology DL1 logger. Pretty compact, and is pretty easy to install. We have considered swapping it from the car it is usually nstalled into and putting in one of our 04 VD's. This will help the driver who usually uses the DL1 where his team mate is taking different lines, and/or if that line is quicker. Very easy to sawp.

Just connect up to battery, wire in GPS sesnor and away you go. Make sure it is perfectly )horizontally and vertically), make sure yu are getting GPS lock, and away you go.

I like the idea of having a putting an OBC on the car, but a negative i if you have it on for a race, you will want it near full screen to see everything well.

When looking at the data, having a line trace for each lap around each corner is something we don't have with our Pi system, and is a shame. If we could combine the easy installation and workingness of the DL1, mixed with the Pi Xsport, it would be a fantastic bit of kit. In the meantime, we will have to wait.

Of the two, I really can't decide which I like better. With the hardware side, they are on parr. With software, Pi is a little eahead, but that is because I have had a limited time with the DL1. But I know there is more for me to find with the DL1 software and play with.

Chucky · 12 Jan 2007, 03:00 (Ref:1812925)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

They do quite a nice little package including it and the display.

You guys must be making too much money. That package is way over priced for what you get.

greenamex2 · 12 Jan 2007, 08:00 (Ref:1813005)

Spent a lot of time on the PI stand looking at their new Omega display.

This is the replacement for the System 2 when combined with a logger.

Stick it together with their compact logger and you get pretty much everything your average club competitor needs.

And it looks a lot better than the Xsport with more stuff being displayed if you want.

My credit card is twitching!

Notso Swift · 12 Jan 2007, 23:40 (Ref:1813727)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucky

You guys must be making too much money. That package is way over priced for what you get.

Remember the reletive costs of an international market Chucky. No one in their right mind would pick Pi over MoTec in this country, because of the cost/value equation. But in Eurpoe MoTeC is picthed as "Porsche OEM" standard, and priced accordingly (ie double our price). Bring Pi to Au and it becomes more expensive than MoTeC, and that makes it poor value.

EfiOz · 13 Jan 2007, 02:17 (Ref:1813788)

I wasn't thinking of Motec when I read his comment. Compared to a Digitek or AIM, Pi is an expensive, underperforming buy in anyone's currency.

The track support issue is probably the biggest gain Pi would have in the UK.

Notso Swift · 13 Jan 2007, 05:50 (Ref:1813819)

Another reason to buy MoTec in Aus, especially Victoria, Phil Morriss at every event tends to smooth out any problems

greenamex2 · 13 Jan 2007, 08:13 (Ref:1813855)

Funnily enough I was playing with the PI, AIM, Stack and my old Astratech software last night in order to answer my gearchange time question thread (as nobody else has!).

Despite never having used it before the PI software was by very the most intuitive to use. In my mind that also has a sgnificant value.

Also interesting was just how far ahead of it's time the old Astratech system was. Shame they gave up on it and wanted stupid amounts of money to buy the business.

Chucky · 14 Jan 2007, 02:57 (Ref:1814641)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Another reason to buy MoTec in Aus, especially Victoria, Phil Morriss at every event tends to smooth out any problems

Chucky · 14 Jan 2007, 02:58 (Ref:1814642)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Despite never having used it before the PI software was by very the most intuitive to use. In my mind that also has a sgnificant value.

No arguments about Pi's analysis software. It's always been good.

The configuration software however......

greenamex2 · 14 Jan 2007, 09:52 (Ref:1814729)

On the subject of Digitek, according to the Demon Tweeks catalog, it's almost as expensive over here as PI.

Mike Holmes · 14 Jan 2007, 20:26 (Ref:1815179)

It's a shame everyone has an obsession with steering wheel mounted dashes. Pi System 2 was perfect as a starter system, Single seaters are not the club market, look at the decline of Zetec Formula Ford in the last year. all it needed was a couple more channels and faster logging rates. The systems available now need too much configuration, fine if you are a full time data engineer, not too much use if you are a once a month club racer.

Chucky · 14 Jan 2007, 23:02 (Ref:1815295)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

On the subject of Digitek, according to the Demon Tweeks catalog, it's almost as expensive over here as PI.

With twice as many features...........

youngoldy · 15 Jan 2007, 12:46 (Ref:1815682)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Holmes

It's a shame everyone has an obsession with steering wheel mounted dashes. Pi System 2 was perfect as a starter system, Single seaters are not the club market, look at the decline of Zetec Formula Ford in the last year. all it needed was a couple more channels and faster logging rates. The systems available now need too much configuration, fine if you are a full time data engineer, not too much use if you are a once a month club racer.

I can't really say too much about the whole full time data engineer doobery, as I am not one, but more of a once a month club race car engineer.

If you are buying any new data logging systems, get it all plugged and installed on you car, install the software on your computer/laptop, and before that cable connecting the logger to the laptop goes anywhere near the car, contact the manufacture of the system.

Tell them the exact name of the system you are using, what type of ignition system you are using, your wheel diameter, size of engine, type of race car, and the product code on the logger.

When it comes to configuring the logger, Pi, as far as being the only data system that you have to setup, is the easiest. Make sure that you enter all the values correctly into the logger. You can then save a config file. This saves all the confiuration settings, so whenever you need to configure the logger/system again, all you do is load the config file, and apply it. I found this out at the 06 WHT, and that really will save me shed loads of time when we are out again this year.

You could do this in you garage before the start of the season, and make sure you know where the config file is saved, so when you need to reset the system, you don't have to enter all the values of the sensors again. And when configuring the logger, with Pi you can alter the logging rates pretty easily. The only negative of that is longer downloading time, bigger size of the file, but doesn't have any effect on the quality of the data, only increases the quality, like looking for understeer/oversteer on the g sesnor reading.

Paceracing · 20 Jan 2007, 00:19 (Ref:1819938)

Pi are advertising in Demon Tweeks now, (the X-Sport dash and combined logger kit) so it looks like they are serious about weekend warriors / club racers. Their new Omega dash that they had at the Autosport show was very sexy for the money a big improvement on the System2, (as well as plugging in sensors direct you can also connect to the CAN line if you want). I have used Pi for a while now and they are always helpful when I phone and often in attendance at the track, particularly here in the UK.

From my experience you ALWAYS get what you pay for...

greenamex2 · 20 Jan 2007, 08:07 (Ref:1820060)

I was very impressed with PI at the show BUT there new dash isn't available until end of April and unless you go to the more expensive logger you can't go beyond engine and wheel speed monitoring (yet).

However I am waiting to see what they do because the software is easily the best of the ones I have tried (although Stack isn't far off) and for the 'weekend warrior' not having to worry about a beacon is a big plus.

tzei · 6 Feb 2008, 17:29 (Ref:2122598)

After reading all 5 pages it seems to me that these systems progress quite fast. What is the story nowdays? I would be very keen to know more about systems that draws circuits and sectors can be set and then monitored.

tristancliffe · 6 Feb 2008, 18:06 (Ref:2122632)

I use the Race Technology DL1, which uses 2g (or 10g) accelerometers, GPS mapping (track drawing and speed logging). I also log engine temps and oil pressures, battery voltage, brake points (using an on/off pressure switch).

The software, currently V7, is getting frequent updates at the moment to enhance it, and it now allows Google Map overlays (which is nice!), custom equations in/with variables, the usual graphing and real-time playback options and the like.

It can also be used with two or three dashboard units to display useful things.

Car variables, like gearing, logger position (accelerometer alignment), mass etc can be saved to individual files.

Lap sectors can be saved and reapplied, so each time you go to a track you have the same sector layout which makes comparisons easier (but not necessarily meaningful if the weather is more than a tiny bit different etc).

The unit can autostart (and autostop if you find something useful to cause that), and can have remote start/stop buttons etc) home made from simple buttons.

I wouldn't say it's invaluable, but it is a help at times, and is interesting all of the time. Knowing what peak speeds, revs and gs were pulled is a nice quick reference, and it's remarkably easy to deduce where you are gaining/losing time in each corner/sector. The hard bit is working out WHY you are gaining/losing time, and that comes with experience of data analysis.

If I could fit a sensor on the steering I would, but that's currently a project for the future.

greenamex2 · 6 Feb 2008, 18:29 (Ref:2122652)

PI's Omega dash is available and can be bought with a Compact Flash card based data logger. Dead handy if you don't have much time to boot up a PC and download the data. There is also an advanced logging option which includes channels such as suspension etc.

Stack's new dash logger looks really good for the money. Lots of memory and inputs and more feature rich software than PI's.

They both have a 'sectoring/qualifying mode' that tells you how much slower you are on that sector and the lap so far compared to the fastest lap.

Still not sure which one I am going to go for. The Stack is slightly cheaper and has better software, the PI is more convenient due to the Compact Flash logger and a pre-installed beacon at most circuits.

I looked at the DL1. The software is better than the last time I looked at it but the number of 'problems' discussed on the forum puts me off.

Not that I have the money in either due to my engine blowing up last year.

tristancliffe · 6 Feb 2008, 22:19 (Ref:2122840)

Yeah, I'm quite regular on the RaceTech forum, and there do seem to be a lot of problems. Most seem to be badly configured PCs or very old hardware that needs firmware updates. The other issue is RF interference, which is caused by people not taking enough care over their wiring, and would affect all dataloggers in the same way.

Personally I've not had a problem with the DL1 (other than not putting the required resistor on the remote start switch and getting lots of random start/stops during a wet test day).

However, it's horses for courses, and swings and roundabouts. I'm sure the PI is better (but it costs more I bet!), and I've been put off Stack by dealings in the past. There are so many loggers out there now for reasonably sensible money that there will be one that suits everyones budget, logging requirements, ease of use (and packaging!), and simplicity of software.

tzei · 8 Feb 2008, 06:20 (Ref:2123820)

Thank You for your inputs. Will have to look again those...

Mr.Jingles · 21 May 2008, 16:24 (Ref:2208418)

I've been trying to find a reasonably priced PI secondhand Systems 2 dash + the rest but am struggling - budget won't realisitically stretch to the near-as-dammit 2 grand required for a new x-sport / omega.

Because of this, I'm looking at these other alternatives:

1) Racepak IQ3 Logger Dash
2) Race Techonolody DL1 Logger with/ without Dash2 Dash
3) Farringdon FD20 logger with/without RCA40 Display

Thoughts guys? I know things just keep on moving! I'm most interested in knowing if:

A) Are they good enough to replace your standard dash dials? (except for the Farringdon of course)
B) Is the data useful to a beginner? (trying to understand where I am going wrong
C) Any cross-support with PI data? (other guys in WPR are running PI systems, would be nice to compare)?
D) Is the software easy to use?

and lastly...

E) Would I be better off waiting to get a system 2 / x-sport / omega?
F) Have you got one for sale?

tristancliffe · 21 May 2008, 16:54 (Ref:2208447)

1. The IQ3 looks nice in terms of 'features', but the sensor prices are expensive (for the CAN bus system), and the software is not user friendly (at least for me).
2. DL1/Dash2 have a good set of features, for a good price. The software is both easy to use, and very powerful, albeit a little slow at times. A few bugs here and there, but the software updates are frequent and do improve things.
3. Farringdon requires a licence to print money - stupid prices for what you get.

I didn't much like the PI software either - I found it cumbersome and confusing, and difficult to even do simple things (although of course I'm sure it's okay once you are used to it, or have hours to spend showing what you want).

I've found the MoTeC software and Race Technology software to be the best from my point of view. Both have a very different way of doing things, but both are user friendly from my experience. Of couse MoTeC isn't a comparible option in terms of price!!!

A) Whilst part of me likes digidashes, I still don't think a decent rev counter and mechanical oil pressure gauge can be beaten. At least you don't have silly conversion equations to go wrong, or filtering to worry about, plus they are ultra reliable, and not very heavy!
B) Yes and no. Good for spotting engine issues (cooling and pressures etc), and good for telling you what you did, and showing up obvious mistakes. But it can't show you where to go quicker easily because it only knows what you did and not what your competitor did in a given corner... You might have what looks like a perfect trace, but still be 1 second down from 'optimum'. How do you tell?
C) If you have data from other drivers you can at least see where you are quicker and slower, which makes it much more useful. Even a second driver or a team mate is enough, probably.
D) I didn't think so. But then as I'm self taught in PI, R-T, MoTeC and Racepak software I'm probably not the right person to ask.
E) If you can justify the price and like the software (free to download - give it a try!) then yes. If not, then no.
f) Nope. Nearly had a PI System 2 for sale, but didn't buy the car with it fitted (I'd have replaced it with a Race-Technology setup straight away).