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Old 17 Sep 2018, 21:04 (Ref:3851147)   #151
btccbloke
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btccbloke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbtccbloke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
He said that he probably could have gotten past Tom and try for a win but wanted to be respectful of their title fight. Also a very classy apology to Matt Neal on Twitter, so props to Rob.
didnt seem to try too hard, if a win is there a driver should go for it IMHO
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 07:50 (Ref:3851206)   #152
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didnt seem to try too hard, if a win is there a driver should go for it IMHO
Can you imagine the backlash if he had taken him out from Gow and from the fans?

This stage of the season it's not about going for every gap. There are bigger picture things to consider if you want to be on the grid next year.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 08:50 (Ref:3851217)   #153
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btccbloke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbtccbloke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
people criticise the likes of Andrew Jordan in 2015 for moving over and letting Shedden past on his way to the title, Austin letting the title contenders stay at the front unchallenged when he "claims" to have been able to overtake is no different.
If your going to win a championship you should expect a bit of a fight for it
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 09:07 (Ref:3851226)   #154
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people criticise the likes of Andrew Jordan in 2015 for moving over and letting Shedden past on his way to the title, Austin letting the title contenders stay at the front unchallenged when he "claims" to have been able to overtake is no different.
If your going to win a championship you should expect a bit of a fight for it
Problem is they are told explicitly in the drivers briefing at this time of the season not to get involved with the championship contenders.

It's not a direction that I agree with as it should be the same all season but the instructions are there.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 09:30 (Ref:3851230)   #155
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
He said that he probably could have gotten past Tom and try for a win but wanted to be respectful of their title fight.
In some R3 reports, the term 'eventually' is used to describe Turkington's overtake of Austin on Lap 21.

If you are not going to attempt a pass because of title challenges, you shouldn't hold someone up either....
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 09:52 (Ref:3851231)   #156
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I think people are probably reading a bit too much in to Rob Austin's comments. I think it's quite easy to for him to say 'I just wanted to sit there and not affect the title players' than 'I didn't have the pace to challenge them'. Rob is pretty good at this pr game.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 11:46 (Ref:3851248)   #157
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Problem is they are told explicitly in the drivers briefing at this time of the season not to get involved with the championship contenders.

It's not a direction that I agree with as it should be the same all season but the instructions are there.
That doesn't mean jump out of their way or don't try too hard just so they can finish 1-2.
Where is the championship challenge if they aren't working for every place.
I agree don't get into unnecessary things like deliberately holding a driver up, or take one of them off with a stupid move but for god sake try!

The drivers all have sponsors to impress and teams who like Alfa-HMS have nothing from the season and you don't try then it's not right.

Ingram could win all 3races at Brands but if these so called racers just let Turks through to second each time so they can stay out the way, is that a fair way for him to take the title?
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 11:58 (Ref:3851252)   #158
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He was probably happier to settle for a guaranteed 2nd place than risk a DNF (and the embarrassment of taking a championship contender out in the process), by trying to win.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 12:25 (Ref:3851259)   #159
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He was probably happier to settle for a guaranteed 2nd place than risk a DNF (and the embarrassment of taking a championship contender out in the process), by trying to win.
Well he ended up 5th.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 12:28 (Ref:3851261)   #160
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Well he ended up 5th.
OK, my bad, but I still think he didn't want to take the risk...
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 19:28 (Ref:3851320)   #161
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That doesn't mean jump out of their way or don't try too hard just so they can finish 1-2.
Where is the championship challenge if they aren't working for every place.
I agree don't get into unnecessary things like deliberately holding a driver up, or take one of them off with a stupid move but for god sake try!

The drivers all have sponsors to impress and teams who like Alfa-HMS have nothing from the season and you don't try then it's not right.

Ingram could win all 3races at Brands but if these so called racers just let Turks through to second each time so they can stay out the way, is that a fair way for him to take the title?
Never said it did mean they had to jump out of the way but, with the cars as close as they are these days, there's almost no way to overtake without the risk of collision unless the car in front makes a mistake. Especially on a track like the Silverstone National circuit.

I'd say the Alfa sponsors would have been less impressed with Austin taking out Turkington compared to finishing in the top 5 with a lot of screen time.

Totally agree that it's not a fair way to win the title but it's the position the management have taken for a few seasons now. Don't fight with the title contenders. Bonkers in my view as how many times have we seen someone taken out in a move by a journeyman earlier in the season? Every race should be the same.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 19:52 (Ref:3851325)   #162
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. Don't fight with the title contenders.
with the notable exception of a title contender team mate....


Turks has Collard and now probably Jordan who is out of title picture



Tingram has nobody


the 2nd unwritten exception is if one of the title contender is a real douchebag who most of the paddock dislikes to say the least
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 22:06 (Ref:3851341)   #163
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Last year Turkington lost out after a tap from Jackson coming back on the circuit
Unfortunately that's racing.

As for Rob Austin, I'll resort to the late great Ayrton Senna's quote of "if you no longer go for a gap that exists, your no longer a racing driver"
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 06:54 (Ref:3851379)   #164
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Totally agree on that one; if a guy is trying to pass you then you should be defending position with very few exceptions.

The guy trying to pass being a championship contender is not one of those in my book; It would be like a football team rolling over in the last match of a season to allow their opponents to win the match and the league.
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 07:07 (Ref:3851381)   #165
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
That doesn't mean jump out of their way or don't try too hard just so they can finish 1-2.
Where is the championship challenge if they aren't working for every place.
I agree don't get into unnecessary things like deliberately holding a driver up, or take one of them off with a stupid move but for god sake try!

The drivers all have sponsors to impress and teams who like Alfa-HMS have nothing from the season and you don't try then it's not right.

Ingram could win all 3races at Brands but if these so called racers just let Turks through to second each time so they can stay out the way, is that a fair way for him to take the title?
Well at least Aidan Moffatt wasn;t listening, if they were told not to interfere with the championship challengers!
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 07:10 (Ref:3851383)   #166
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Totally agree on that one; if a guy is trying to pass you then you should be defending position with very few exceptions.

The guy trying to pass being a championship contender is not one of those in my book; It would be like a football team rolling over in the last match of a season to allow their opponents to win the match and the league.
Jack Goff is normally one of the worst culprits for making it easy for championship contenders to overtake him. He virtually waves them through!
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 07:16 (Ref:3851384)   #167
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As for Rob Austin, I'll resort to the late great Ayrton Senna's quote of "if you no longer go for a gap that exists, your no longer a racing driver"
That quote causes so much carnage in club racing...

Can't be a racing driver if you can't afford to fix the smoking pile of metal that used to be your car. Big difference between well funded F1 drivers and BTCC drivers who scrape the budget together every year by the skin of their teeth.
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 07:18 (Ref:3851385)   #168
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Jack Goff is normally one of the worst culprits for making it easy for championship contenders to overtake him. He virtually waves them through!
Really? In the year when everyone was waving Shedden through Goff was the only one who put up a fight.

Maybe he got a *******ing after that.
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 13:34 (Ref:3851426)   #169
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I think it should be up to the drivers to decide
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3851437)   #170
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Well at least Aidan Moffatt wasn;t listening, if they were told not to interfere with the championship challengers!
He was listening but did it properly.
Being told not to interfere with championship challengers to my mind means:
Don't cruise round with it deliberately holding someone up causing a rolling roadblock to other championship contenders, and dont do anything which could be seen as having a direct result in the championship outcome (i.e deliberately take someone out with a move that would never come off).

It does NOT mean:
Dont try to overtake the championship challengers
Wave any championship challenger past when you can

I get that the comment that there is a cost to repair etc that Rob and others needed to think about but they are there to race, if they cant even attempt to pull a move off cleanly against top drivers who are going for the title without taking them out then they need to consider why they are there and if thats the right championship for them
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Old 19 Sep 2018, 17:26 (Ref:3851451)   #171
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Looks like Jake Hill was a guest of AmD at Silverstone. Hopefully good news for 2019!
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Old 20 Sep 2018, 10:13 (Ref:3851559)   #172
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I hope he does get the seat at AMD
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Old 20 Sep 2018, 10:50 (Ref:3851566)   #173
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He was listening but did it properly.
Being told not to interfere with championship challengers to my mind means:
Don't cruise round with it deliberately holding someone up causing a rolling roadblock to other championship contenders, and dont do anything which could be seen as having a direct result in the championship outcome (i.e deliberately take someone out with a move that would never come off).

It does NOT mean:
Dont try to overtake the championship challengers
Wave any championship challenger past when you can

I get that the comment that there is a cost to repair etc that Rob and others needed to think about but they are there to race, if they cant even attempt to pull a move off cleanly against top drivers who are going for the title without taking them out then they need to consider why they are there and if thats the right championship for them
Exactly, not getting involved is basically not taking them out with stupid moves.
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Old 20 Sep 2018, 11:35 (Ref:3851570)   #174
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Do we need to start a new thread for PR spin / team excuses. This latest gem from BMR.
http://www.teambmr.co.uk/2018-09-sut...at-silverstone
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Unfortunately, we were then denied access to the grid by a TOCA Official who was watching us work in the garage and he informed us that he would not permit us to release the car from the garage, which effectively meant that we had to change the entire flat floor which was an unnecessary and timely process.
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Old 20 Sep 2018, 15:05 (Ref:3851615)   #175
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"unnecessary and timely process" is something of an oxymoron, isn't it? "Time-consuming", perhaps...

Anyhow: if there's a series official in the garage, and the car is damaged, and they deem that to need to floor changing - the change is necessary.

It's a shame that we've lost a contender as a result, and I get the pressure comments, but no other teams in my memory have dropped a car and something resulting in a floor change being needed. :-/
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