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25 Apr 2016, 13:09 (Ref:3636250) | #201 | ||
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The Aston that was running for a while was a GT4 car slightly modified to fit GS rules. It did not overwhelm. The current Porsche GT4 seems to fit fine too. Seems a very workable solution and better than the silhouette Z28s. My only problem with GT4 is the track day kit cars that do not represent US driving (KTM, Ginetta , SIN).
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25 Apr 2016, 13:37 (Ref:3636258) | #202 | |
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Some people want GS to be kit cars, and others want GS to be homegrown cars I guess...
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25 Apr 2016, 14:04 (Ref:3636265) | #203 | ||
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Certainly the kit cars will fatten the field, or even overrun the field as I suspect they are super cost effective but the original concept of the series has been modified street cars or clearly street car based. This has the effect of inviting manufacturer support plus spectator interest in a way kit cars do not.
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25 Apr 2016, 17:34 (Ref:3636294) | #204 | |||
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#18 and #19 were the 'old' ProSport home-builts, #20 was a new one. Cf. the different wing and the post-face lift headlights: http://gt4series.com/teams-drivers/b...gallery/page/2 |
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
25 Apr 2016, 18:22 (Ref:3636312) | #205 | ||||
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FFS, There are already Camaros and Mustangs racing in the class over in Europe! And winning championships! Last year's GT4 European Series champions in the Pro class were driving a Camaro! Okay, there are no Mustangs THIS year, but the point still stands - particularly with a double podium by the Camaros in race 2 of the opening weekend. Just like with the claims about the Z28 ruining the GS class, you are worried about a NONEXISTANT problem. Last edited by FormulaFox; 25 Apr 2016 at 18:28. |
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25 Apr 2016, 18:28 (Ref:3636315) | #206 | ||||
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
25 Apr 2016, 19:10 (Ref:3636322) | #207 | ||||
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25 Apr 2016, 19:24 (Ref:3636327) | #208 | |||||
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Quoting John Vincent who should know a thing or two about Conti: Quote:
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
25 Apr 2016, 20:42 (Ref:3636341) | #209 | |||||
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Professionally built cars have dominated GS for over a decade. Even when they weren't at the front of the field, the writing was on the wall the moment Roush-built Mustangs first debuted. The GS class decline is the result of it pretending to be something it's not. GT4 is the future of classes like GS. It allows performance cars of all types to compete on a reasonably leveled playing field with minimal modification. It is EXACTLY what GS needs. The attitude that GS needs to stick to this "homebrew" BS is what's hurting the class. You might as well insist on replacing GS with TA2 - a good class, to be sure, but only in the series it was created for. And even it will need to evolve eventually, or it too will die out. GS as it exists is outdated. It must be replaced, and GT4 is the perfect replacement for it. |
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25 Apr 2016, 21:18 (Ref:3636353) | #210 | ||
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What cars were not team built? Turner, Fall-line, me(Phoenix(both Subaru and Mustang)), Rum-bum(Porsche #2, Deman built the first one, and their BMW was Fall-Line) were all built by the teams. CKS built their own Camaro SS, and partly built their Z28. Doran built their 370's. I'd say GS has been a homebrew class for a long time. These cars builds fed teams, kept people employed and so forth, that otherwise would not be around because they can not afford to buy $250,000 of racecar that still needs work(and money) to go fast. Think of it this way, the team already has the labor, so why not use it, plus they know more about the cars. If you watched the PWC Barber GTS race, you would see how much work the balance of the GT4(even between GT4 cars, let alone the "GTS" cars)cars need. It was pretty bad, and PWC knows they need to fix it and fast. What happens on the next down turn in economy, and all these car companies cut their customer support programs? and yes, the Z28 started the death spiral. From a guy who had a vote at the table during the conference call about to what to do with 2 races to go in 2014. |
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25 Apr 2016, 21:22 (Ref:3636355) | #211 | |
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double post
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25 Apr 2016, 22:13 (Ref:3636366) | #212 | |||||||
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Someone who's been learning a LOT about IMSA's internal workings from people on the inside as a result of his upcoming employment.
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Like I said, the writing's been on the wall since Roush started building Mustangs for the class. Quote:
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Nothing's going to change until the class is either replaced, supplemented, or folks such as yourself decide to work harder. If the class as designed was so perfect, you'd either be able to build a better mousetrap to catch the mouse that's beaten you, or GM never would've been able to build such a supremely dominant machine. You're blaming the Z28 for your OWN failures. |
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25 Apr 2016, 22:23 (Ref:3636368) | #213 | ||
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26 Apr 2016, 00:33 (Ref:3636382) | #214 | |
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FF, at least AJ and I don't hide behind a screen name. We probably have more experience in the series than anyone I've seen post here because they are mostly anonymous. So, it's easy to call out peoples failures and how they are wrong in your opinion when you know that nobody will be able to hold you accountable.
Back to GT4. If any of you that have actually followed the class since 2007 would understand that it had great fanfare because manufacturers signed up to build cars. That lasted for a while and it stopped. Fields got thin because Ford, Riley and BMW quit making cars for the class. So it became the class where if you had enough money and a package, it became approved. Then became a series where kit cars that nobody has ever heard of, all of a sudden were approved. KTM became a big entry because of that Stars of Tomorrow thing they got going on. Partnering up with the SRO was the best thing they did. It made the field bigger. With the glut of the clapped out Maserati Cup cars that were on the market for 10 cents on the dollar, it all of a sudden became a GT4 spec too. More cars. Want to build an M4? No problem. We will give you GT4 certification. We know that you can't call it a BMW and you won't build them for anyone else but it has a GT4 piece of paper to make it proper. I want to build a Factory Five Daytona Cobra Coupe for GT4. It's a kit car just the other ones approved. It would be cool to see a 60's car out there with a carbon tub prototype and a Z28 (in the US we call that an HSR race). No reason why it couldn't be approved. Factory Five makes plenty of those kits for $20K (supposedly they have sold over 500 of them). All it takes is some time in a garage and a drive line from a 1990 Mustang 5.0. When I want to progress to GT3, it'll be a Tornado GT40 Kit car. When the ST class becomes one we want to go after, let's just wait until the SRO makes a GT5 class. Then we can have a Lotus Super 7 Kit car running out there against a Civic. I have nothing against GT4, I just don't like it when you pit high volume production cars against dedicated track cars that nobody knows what in the world they are. I looked on another thread and some guy mentioned they would like to see a SIN GTLM car. I have a feeling that if it happened, there would be a 100 page thread by every Corvette fan not wanting that because the SIN is not a regular street car like the Corvette. I do racing in Europe and the US. Different cultures and different ways they go racing. Don't force the American version of racing down the Europeans throats and vice versa. All it does is ends up ticking off a bunch of people and they go away. |
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26 Apr 2016, 00:55 (Ref:3636384) | #215 | ||
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Until that, I'll agree the class needs a re-boot, but not with the GT4 kit cars. But its not my job to make the rules, just to try to build the best mouse trap with-in them. I'm not big enough to have the rule book re-written. |
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26 Apr 2016, 02:19 (Ref:3636394) | #216 | ||
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26 Apr 2016, 02:21 (Ref:3636395) | #217 | ||
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Oh, this crap again...
The fact that I've gotten my big opportunity while "hiding" behind this screenname says a TON about how much it matters. It meant nothing when Phil Kaiser tried to use it against me on Racer, and it means nothing here. |
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26 Apr 2016, 09:17 (Ref:3636425) | #218 | |
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In UK, AMOC GT4 Cup looks to be the best value for money racing for GT4s. It was previously just for Astons, but with limited numbers of them built, they were never going to fill grids so this year it's opened up to other GT4 marques. First race on Brands GP circuit was won by a BMW M3 GT4, with Astons 2nd and 3rd. They race on British GT program, and next rounds are Oulton £550 in May then Silverstone GP £600. Normally 30 min quali + 50min or 45min race with mandatory 1 min pit stop so you can run 2 drivers. I don't race a GT4 but think this is worth a mention because it is such amazing value for money for GT4s, even if it is just for extra seat time.
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26 Apr 2016, 17:46 (Ref:3636497) | #219 | ||
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Good points jjvincent. Back when GT4 started there was a separate (or sub class) called SuperSport just for the low volume kit cars like the KTM Xbow, Lotus 211, Peugeot 207 spyder etc. While BoP allows for wide variety, the problem potentially is that balancing two totally different cars can be a nightmare. Maybe time to start reclassifying or revamp the classes properly? Sportscar365 is reporting full adoption of GT4 regs for GTS next year.
On a side note. I think it's awesome to see track day cars or kit cars competing in races. America has plenty of these manufacturers. Though I admit more money has to go into making a track day car race durable and that may be a problem for some of the small companies |
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26 Apr 2016, 20:13 (Ref:3636536) | #220 | ||
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Looks like the Pirelli World Challenge has accepted GT4 as the future of GTS:
http://sportscar365.com/gt/world-cha...ations-in-gts/ |
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26 Apr 2016, 20:25 (Ref:3636543) | #221 | |
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The Ratel takeover has begun!
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26 Apr 2016, 22:04 (Ref:3636553) | #222 | |||
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It's good to know that we will have GT4 cars with a SRO BoP and an IMSA BoW. Hopefully we can add the driver ranking debacle into the mix. |
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26 Apr 2016, 23:52 (Ref:3636561) | #223 | ||
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In racing, if you don't work hard enough to beat your opponents, you lose. That's what's going on here. Want to beat the Z28? Build or acquire a better car.
Simple as that. Don't have the financial resources to do it? Leave before you go bankrupt. If the class is sustainable, someone will take your place. |
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27 Apr 2016, 00:04 (Ref:3636564) | #224 | |
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It's like if you put a GT1 vette in a GT3 series, and it won every race. Then suddenly GT3 implodes.
Welp, I guess it was everyone's else's fault, because they didn't have enough money. So fair. |
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27 Apr 2016, 00:32 (Ref:3636569) | #225 | |||
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Like it or not, the Z28 is rules compliant. If you can't do as good or better, it's the fault of nobody but yourself. |
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