How many records is Alonso going to break?

Gerben24 · 26 Jul 2005, 13:09 (Ref:1363777)

Surely Fernando Alonso is going to become the youngest F1 champion ever this year, but will he be able to break any other records?
I believe Ayrton Senna is still the youngest 3 times world champion at 30 (or 31) years of age. Alonso is almost 24 so, he's got a couple of years to break that record.
I don't believe he will be able to break MS's record of 7 World championships, simply because I don't believe he will be as dominant as MS has been over the last decade. I also don't think he will be able to get 80+ wins as MS has, because Fernando is not in the situation where his teammate will move over just before the finishline

(don't take that comment to serious).
Will he be able to get more than 65 poles, a record set by Senna that might well be broken by Michael...
Then you've got the record of fastest lap in a race, probably in the hands of MS...
What other records are there???

Jordi · 26 Jul 2005, 13:10 (Ref:1363780)

Well so far he's only beaten youth records. When he starts breaking total records then we'll talk

Kicking-back · 26 Jul 2005, 13:44 (Ref:1363799)

The rivalry between Raikkonen and Alonso could be a great one for many years to come

chillibowl · 26 Jul 2005, 18:19 (Ref:1363981)

imo thats one of the only knocks against "MS as a great champion" i can think of - other than mika hakkinen and only at the end of his career did MS have a real challanger, other than that there was really no one else.
if this year is any indication the next ten years or so will provide excellent battles with both KR and FA trying to break as many records as possible while trying to break each other. its all very exciting!

Dutch chap · 26 Jul 2005, 19:55 (Ref:1364048)

I suppose we all know how to look at MS’s record sheet. No competition from the other teams/drivers, no competition from his own team mate, best car around. Not really comparable to the days of Clark, Lauda, Prost and Senna and even Mansell, to name a few. Whatever happens with Alonso braking records will all depend on how the situation with other competitors will be. If he stays with Renault and MR stays with Mclaren and Renault will continue to dominate like they do this season for the next couple of years Alonso may even get to break all records. If things change, he will not, as simple as that.

Dutton · 26 Jul 2005, 20:11 (Ref:1364058)

Because none of them ever had the best car with a notably inferior team-mate.

IL LEONE · 26 Jul 2005, 20:12 (Ref:1364059)

It's a shame that TGF's career will be often looked at in that way, no competition, best drive etc etc. Although no one can deny his brilliance it is somewhat blurred by those facts. He did however have competition, don't forget poor old rockerbilly Damo and certainly not Hakkinen.

It's hard to see what lies ahead for Alonso except the fact that he's pretty much tied this season up and from then on it is certainly going to be competitive.
We now have IMHO at minimum 5 drivers who can be fighting for the drivers title in seasons to come, their cars allowing of course.

What I do hope is that TGF sticks around for a while yet and to try & really prove his metal against the new stuff.

Icycool · 26 Jul 2005, 20:50 (Ref:1364090)

Quote; ".....Then you've got the record of fastest lap in a race, probably in the hands of MS..."

Correct me if I am wrong thought that was help by JPM, set at Monza last year at an average speed of 160mph ?

IL LEONE · 26 Jul 2005, 20:54 (Ref:1364094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icycool

Quote; ".....Then you've got the record of fastest lap in a race, probably in the hands of MS..."

Correct me if I am wrong thought that was help by JPM, set at Monza last year at an average speed of 160mph ?

Yep.
I think you are right.

BootsOntheSide · 26 Jul 2005, 20:56 (Ref:1364096)

He's the youngest driver to take a pole or win, isn't he? Youngest champion would somewhat be a hat-trick, although I think he's missed being the youngest driver to set a fastest lap. He could become the youngest to win 10 races, given that Michael had a long gap between his 8th and 9th back in 1994. Youngest records are one thing - clearly it would take several years of dominance to match some of Michael's totals, or Senna's 65 poles, and all the omens suggest that the next F1 era will be closer than the last few years (although Fernando looks likely to have dominance over his team-mates much like Michael). Maybe in 10 years it will be Kimi and not Fernando who is chasing the big records.

Dutch chap · 26 Jul 2005, 21:24 (Ref:1364127)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IL LEONE

It's a shame that TGF's career will be often looked at in that way......

True, very true!

Snrub · 26 Jul 2005, 21:29 (Ref:1364138)

It's too early to make such a prediction. MS's very talented, but he was in a perfect storm situation that allowed him to amass so many wins and championships. While he has definately had some things work in his favor, he also showed favorably against the likes of Prost, Senna, Hill, Villenueve, Mika, etc. I really only think Montoya has ever showed all that favorably against MS and only in certain moments on the track, not on record, etc.

On the same token we're seeing an unprecedented effort by manufacturers and the level of competitiveness is very high. I don't see Alonso consistantly having the car to be able to amass championships the way MS has. Alonso is racing well, but he's not really pulling out any giant killing feat. I don't see him doing anything spectacular, he's running as quickly as should be expected in a quick car. He's not really beating anyone other than Fisi and JPM and their problems appear to be more of their own. If he could do something like keep pace with one of the Mclarens in a slightly slower car or a few impressive passes, etc. or something like that I'd be more impressed.

I suppose the question has to be asked, has Alonso done anything this season that would make you believe that he's improved relative to where he was last year compared to Trulli?

Jordi · 26 Jul 2005, 22:13 (Ref:1364173)

Right on, Snrub.

Schumacher did win his first title with probably the best car all-round, but he really earned the 2nd one, when the car was not all that great against the FW17s.

Alonso has the best car in that it has winning pace at almost every race and that it's completely reliable. You might argue why Fisico is not in the same level if the car's so good, but Fisico's suffered a number of circumstances.

Menelaos · 26 Jul 2005, 22:15 (Ref:1364175)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerben24

I don't believe he will be able to break MS's record of 7 World championships, simply because I don't believe he will be as dominant as MS has been over the last decade.

MS is of course a fantastic driver, but if he didn't have the absolutely best car by quite a margin, plus if Senna hadn't died, plus if Hakkinen hadn't retired he would never have such a record. It's ridiculous to suppose that he was so much better than anybody else. So, any top quality driver (Raikkonen, Alonso) could do the same thing, if his team provides him with such a good car and competition fades as it did with MS.

**Adam43** · 26 Jul 2005, 22:42 (Ref:1364196)

Emmo

Sorry, but I just felt like shouting that. Afterall we are discussing Alonso claiming a record and no one has mentioned the bloke who has previously owned it. And he was a blumin' legend.

Consider who has owned it and you consider the importance of it.

Dutch chap · 26 Jul 2005, 22:54 (Ref:1364213)

Adam, you have every reason for shouting, because you're 100% right.

BootsOntheSide · 27 Jul 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1364459)

Good point Adam. We can onyl wonder what Emmo's career record would have been if he didn't spend so much time in his brother's uncompetitive team. Similarly, part of the significance of Montiero's record run of finishes this year is that the record used to belong to Jackie Stewart.

KevinS · 27 Jul 2005, 10:13 (Ref:1364492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icycool

Quote; ".....Then you've got the record of fastest lap in a race, probably in the hands of MS..."

Correct me if I am wrong thought that was help by JPM, set at Monza last year at an average speed of 160mph ?

I think he meant the fastest lap during each race, not THE fastest lap (avg speed) ever. Even this year MS has set some fastest laps and he's well in the lead for most fastest laps ever with 69 over Prost's 41.

Active drivers:
MS 69
DC 18
RB 15
JPM 11
KR 11
JV 9
RS 7
FA 3
GF 2
(AW, PdlR 1)

Down F0rce · 27 Jul 2005, 10:47 (Ref:1364532)

If Alonso wins the remaning races (which he may very well do) he would set a new record for most wins in a season...

BootsOntheSide · 27 Jul 2005, 11:07 (Ref:1364549)

Who's the youngest driver ever to set a fastest lap? And when was Alonso's first?

DSM · 27 Jul 2005, 14:41 (Ref:1364720)

Interesting that some think that MS 'had no competition'. I wonder, if Alonso turns out to be as good as he might, and eclipses the opposition, whether we'll look back in ten or twelve years and say "of course, he had no competition".

The fact is that there has always been huge competiton and a number of excellent, competitive drivers in cars that were, overall, a match for his, since MS arrived.

It's just that he was better than all of them.

deeks6 · 28 Jul 2005, 00:23 (Ref:1365159)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch chap

I suppose we all know how to look at MS’s record sheet. No competition from the other teams/drivers, no competition from his own team mate, best car around. Not really comparable to the days of Clark, Lauda, Prost and Senna and even Mansell, to name a few. Whatever happens with Alonso braking records will all depend on how the situation with other competitors will be. If he stays with Renault and MR stays with Mclaren and Renault will continue to dominate like they do this season for the next couple of years Alonso may even get to break all records. If things change, he will not, as simple as that.

Golly, who WAS that guy racing an "inferior" Benetton (competitvely too) against Williams and McLarens driven by none other than Prost, Senna and Mansell? We could throw in Piquet (3 time WDC), Hakkinen (2 time WDC) and a couple of other WDC duds like Hill and Villeneuve. Gimme a break.

As for the thread ... Alonso is a virtuoso - you could tell from his first drive in a Minardi. He WILL be the youngest ever WDC, he WILL be a multiple WDC and if longevity blesses him, he is capbale of MS-like statistics. Like MS (and unlike KR), he is good to cars as well as super quick, consistent and aggressive when he needs to be.

... and GREAT to watch!

BootsOntheSide · 28 Jul 2005, 10:45 (Ref:1365419)

The 1993 McLaren with customer Ford engines was greatly inferior to the 1993 Benetton with works Ford engines, yet Senna beat Schumacher that year. Besides, Michael never won a championship against any of the old 'gang of four' - he had no chance against Mansell in 1992, and only a very small chance against Prost in 1993 (although looking back it's surprising taht he didn't beat Damon that year).

Bleu · 28 Jul 2005, 15:51 (Ref:1365712)

Alonso is also youngest driver to set fastest lap. He actually beat Bruce McLaren by one day. He set his first fastest lap in Canada 2003.

Top 10 in that category: Alonso, McLaren (GB 59), Räikkönen (Oz 02), DC (Ger 94), Schuey (Spa 92), de Cesaris (Spa 83), Wurz (Arg 98), Senna (Mon 84), Ralf (Ita 99) and Fisi (Spain 97)

Snrub · 28 Jul 2005, 16:52 (Ref:1365739)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

The 1993 McLaren with customer Ford engines was greatly inferior to the 1993 Benetton with works Ford engines, yet Senna beat Schumacher that year. Besides, Michael never won a championship against any of the old 'gang of four' - he had no chance against Mansell in 1992, and only a very small chance against Prost in 1993 (although looking back it's surprising taht he didn't beat Damon that year).

I've heard that arguement before, but how was the McLaren chasis compared to the Benetton? MS certainly came from behind and passed Senna on multiple occations.

In fairness to Hill he had hideous luck in '93.

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