What is Aston Martin up to?

[lms]

Originally Posted by AGD

Oh, but the AMR-One will live on in a way through the DeltaWing! What a legacy those tubs will have. Two wasted grid spots in 2011 and one wasted spot in 2012. It's like the gift that keeps giving. Or something like that.

[Acid09]

Is there any news on the GT3 Vantage yet? I remember reading they want to test it in late October.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by AGD

Oh, but the AMR-One will live on in a way through the DeltaWing! What a legacy those tubs will have. Two wasted grid spots in 2011 and one wasted spot in 2012. It's like the gift that keeps giving. Or something like that.

Gold.

[canam]

I have been looking at the title to this thread:

"What is Aston Martin up to"

Answers:

Hopefully nothing
Hopefully nothing embarrassing
Hopefully nothing that could prove embarrassing
Hopefully nothing that is stated as fact by Prodrive

I would like nothing more that a properly funded works effort but that ain't going to happen.

Why don't we guillotine this thread as it ain't going anywhere. Using an Aston tub, don't make it an Aston. I presume the Delta boys have already agreed a homologation deal with AMR/Prodrive/DR (whatever the heck they decide to call themselves).

Final answer:

Nothing worthwhile

[CTD]

Originally Posted by canam

I have been looking at the title to this thread:

"What is Aston Martin up to"

Answers:

Hopefully nothing
Hopefully nothing embarrassing
Hopefully nothing that could prove embarrassing
Hopefully nothing that is stated as fact by Prodrive

I would like nothing more that a properly funded works effort but that ain't going to happen.

Why don't we guillotine this thread as it ain't going anywhere. Using an Aston tub, don't make it an Aston. I presume the Delta boys have already agreed a homologation deal with AMR/Prodrive/DR (whatever the heck they decide to call themselves).

Final answer:

Nothing worthwhile

As long as AMR has plans for Le Mans (something they say they still have), this thread will deserve it's life.

And personally i hope that we will see Aston Martin back with a Prodrive powered AMR car, with a proper development schedule and budget behind it.
We know what Prodrive is able to do if they are given the resources to do it properly (see most of the Subaru WRC's).

I'm sorry to hear you don't have hopes for AMR any longer, but many of us still do!

[AGD]

It looks like AMR will be back with GTE Vantages if nothing else. Granted, privateers have been running that car for a while now with very little success even with very favorable rules. Anyway, the thread is still valid. I'm sure we'll be discussing Richards and GH-Cs comments about the Vantage's Grand Canyon sized restrictors not being big enough and how unfair it is and how Corvette, Ferrari, and Porsche are running scared from AMR.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by AGD

I'm sure we'll be discussing Richards and GH-Cs comments about the Vantage's Grand Canyon sized restrictors not being big enough and how unfair it is and how Corvette, Ferrari, and Porsche are running scared from AMR.

[Pandamasque]

You are so full of vile, it's incredible. The Vantage has been somewhat competitive in the hands of gentlemen drivers with barely any development, and without the bucketload of waivers that Corvette and that DTM car have. It took one car in the hands of a pro team for one season, and they nearly won the last race. How long did it take BMW M3 to win anything?
Prodrive have won Le Mans 3 times with GT1 cars. I'd be logical to assume they can get a GTE car sorted and competitive.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

You are so full of vile, it's incredible. The Vantage has been somewhat competitive in the hands of gentlemen drivers with barely any development, and without the bucketload of waivers that Corvette and that DTM car have. It took one car in the hands of a pro team for one season, and they nearly won the last race. How long did it take BMW M3 to win anything?
Prodrive have won Le Mans 3 times with GT1 cars. I'd be logical to assume they can get a GTE car sorted and competitive.

The current generation of the M3 won the seventh race it was entered in (2009 ALMS Road America). It did not take long.

I'm not really sure how JMW almost winning Silverstone in 2010 has much relevance. JMW is a great team. The won their last race before switching to the Aston and they won their first race after switching from the Aston. The latter win was with a brand new car too. JMW did not win with the Aston. I don't know why, but JMW did not continue with Aston after their near win and I think we can look back at that now and say that was a very wise decision.

Anyway, I'm sure the factory team can improve the Vantage, but they aren't all that close as it is even with very favorable regulations. First they have to get competitive with their current regulations. After that, they have to get competitive with more regular regulations if that makes any sense. I think it is fair to say that they have a long way to go. JMW made some progress, but it did not really translate to much success this year with some fairly decent privateer teams. Jota isn't some junk privateer team. It's not like it was a few years ago with Paul Drayson trying physics experiments in the graveltraps. They are legitimate. Young Driver too.

IMO, one competitive outing during all these years with favorable regulations is not a lot to get excited about. None of us are going to claim the RSR Jaguar is ready for primetime just because they set a fastest lap at Lime Rock (or where ever it was) this year. None of us thought the Robertson Ford GT was a serious threat for greatness when they won the pole at Petit in 2009. I'm sure AMR can get some more speed and reliability out of the V8 Vantage (it needs a lot of both), but let's not hold a spot for them on the GTE-Pro podium. It'll take A LOT of work and I hope AMR is willing to do that instead of just whining about their already favorable regs. Prodrive is capable of good things, but how are they going to try to do good things now? Through hard work or through politics?

The one thing AMR may have going for them is that the GTE-Pro grid may be weak in the WEC. We'll have to see who enters.

[KA]

Originally Posted by AGD

Anyway, I'm sure the factory team can improve the Vantage, but they aren't all that close as it is even with very favorable regulations. First they have to get competitive with their current regulations. After that, they have to get competitive with more regular regulations if that makes any sense. I think it is fair to say that they have a long way to go. JMW made some progress, but it did not really translate to much success this year with some fairly decent privateer teams. Jota isn't some junk privateer team. It's not like it was a few years ago with Paul Drayson trying physics experiments in the graveltraps. They are legitimate. Young Driver too.

Isn't one of the big probems with the Vantage the fact that from the start there has been no continuity of teams running the car, and the teams that have run it have either been doing limited programmes of a few races, running at least one gentleman amateur driver, or both?

Drayson, as you say were hampered by only having one pro driver on board and spending a lot of time fishing the car out of gravel traps (when they weren't changing engines), James Watt Automotive ran one a handful of times with amateur drivers, Hexis appeared once or twice in FIA GT (IIRC Prodrive's development car on loan?) but otherwise stuck to their GT3 programme, JMW ran a full season, but then reverted to their roots as a Ferrari team, Young Driver made a one-off appearance and an LM entry that never got off the reserve list, Gulf AMR Middle East- a GTE-Am effort with gentleman amateurs on board; IIRC there was a local entry at the Asian LMS race in Japan in '09 and so on...

Apart from JMW, the one thing there's never really been is a full-season effort with a top-flight team and a fully-pro driver squad (Even the Jota entry is compromised against the GTE-Pro opposition- IIRC Simon Dolan is the money behind the team, rather than a professional driver), and that can't be good for development.

That situation suggests one of two things- either the Vantage is a turkey and every team that looks at it has dropped it like it's on fire because nothing is going to make it competitive, or from the start, AMR simply haven't been serious enough about supporting their customers and developing the car.

IIRC a factory development car appeared a few times early on, run either by Prodrive themselves, or loaned out to Hexis, and I can't help thinking they should have done that a lot more often than they did.

Perhaps when they parked the AMR-Ones after Le Mans, they'd have been better served by dropping back to GTE and seeing out the rest of this season running a race and development programme with the Vantage, rather than running races in an old car that has no real future. If they are going to move to GTE next year, it would at least given them a head start for 2012, which surely must be more valuable in the long-term than the single ALMS win they scored against privateer opposition in their late-season Lola-Aston campaign.

[Tim the Grey]

I suspect the team's sponsors may have insisted on SOMETHING good happening this year!

The Vantage is pretty good, when run by a decent team. As said umpteen times, JMW had it running well, Hexis ditto.
Jota and Gulf AMR with the best will in the world are run by Pros, for Gentlemen to spend money on. Yes, Simon is the money at Jota. How they are classed as PRO I'm not sure. I suspect the 'year old' regs have a lot to do with it!

AMR need to show off in 2012, so I suspect a GT-E works effort is where they can go. I don't really see anything else, at this point in time.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I suspect the team's sponsors may have insisted on SOMETHING good happening this year!

The Vantage is pretty good, when run by a decent team. As said umpteen times, JMW had it running well, Hexis ditto.
Jota and Gulf AMR with the best will in the world are run by Pros, for Gentlemen to spend money on. Yes, Simon is the money at Jota. How they are classed as PRO I'm not sure. I suspect the 'year old' regs have a lot to do with it!

AMR need to show off in 2012, so I suspect a GT-E works effort is where they can go. I don't really see anything else, at this point in time.

But will a GT-E effort be something that will satisfy Gulf and the Aston Marketing?
We know that they won't win "straight out of the box" and will have a hard time against the very well established brands of Porsche and Ferrari. Perhaps a re-amped Lmp1 project will give them more show, and will be easier to defend "not-in-the-top" results, where as a GT-E effort is something that AMR should be able to be top running in.

[MitchZ06]

Well....Aston sell GT cars, why not race a GT car? Hell they could even stuff a 3-4L version of that I6 under the hood of the Vantage and market the pants off it.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Well....Aston sell GT cars, why not race a GT car? Hell they could even stuff a 3-4L version of that I6 under the hood of the Vantage and market the pants off it.

Yes, but when Le Mans is on, you wouldn't get the same attention in GT-E like you would do in a "brand new" LMP1.
Especially when the Vantage isn't a new car in GT-E

[Mal]

DSC has just tweeted that George Howard Chappell is leaving Aston Martin.

[Acid09]

Just by looking in from the outside, it really seems like things are falling apart there.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Mal

DSC has just tweeted that George Howard Chappell is leaving Aston Martin.

Oh dear ..... I hope the axeman isnt holding him responsible for the AMR-0ne debacle ?

Wonder where he is off to then ..... Toyota !

[Mal]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Oh dear ..... I hope the axeman isnt holding him responsible for the AMR-0ne debacle ?

Wonder where he is off to then ..... Toyota !

I would think Jaguar is more likely

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Just by looking in from the outside, it really seems like things are falling apart there.

Seems like it - another knock to an already fragile operation. George appeared to me as one of the few steady elements of leadership. Although, that's likely due to both he and DR being presented as the face of the outfit - as opposed to Audi/Peugeot, where multiple leadership figures are given face time.

Originally Posted by The Badger

Oh dear ..... I hope the axeman isnt holding him responsible for the AMR-0ne debacle ?

Wonder where he is off to then ..... Toyota !

Dagys just posted that GHC's departure may not take effect until early next year (he's given six months notice, apparently). So, where his next role might be is anyone's guess.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Mal

DSC has just tweeted that George Howard Chappell is leaving Aston Martin.

Gut feeling is that this may be the end of the road for Aston Martin in front line ACO series racing.

Sad to think that ultimately this turned on the decision to replace a part on the AMR-One on Friday night prior to Le Mans without consequence modelling through what might happen.

For all that the AMR-One disappointed, I think I quite liked it when I saw in June, and I can't help wondering if things might have been different had it run into Sunday morning.

In terms of silver linings, one can but hope that GH-C has something exciting lined up as a next step.

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by Mal

DSC has just tweeted that George Howard Chappell is leaving Aston Martin.

Don't know if that are good or bad news for AMR

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by AGD

They are legitimate. Young Driver too.

Young Driver Vantage was one of the fastest cars at Paul Ricard. Not the most reliable though.
The biggest problem with Vantage is that it didn't get the treatment that DBR9 had. They should have raced it competitively for a few years and then sell a lot of them to privateers, it would be a top machine by now. Instead they were busy with LMP1 and hoping the V8 will sort itself out somehow.

As much as I liked the sound of their LMP1 cars, with so many top-dollar works efforts about to enter P1 2012-onwards, Prodrive don't have much of a chance to be more than just above average even if they do things right next time. AMR should concentrate on GTE, and when the new i6 road car arrives, it should be their next program for GTE and P2 (engine supply).

[KA]

Originally Posted by isynge

Gut feeling is that this may be the end of the road for Aston Martin in front line ACO series racing.

Sad to think that ultimately this turned on the decision to replace a part on the AMR-One on Friday night prior to Le Mans without consequence modelling through what might happen.

For all that the AMR-One disappointed, I think I quite liked it when I saw in June, and I can't help wondering if things might have been different had it run into Sunday morning.

In terms of silver linings, one can but hope that GH-C has something exciting lined up as a next step.

You could be right- if they've decided AMR-One can't be turned round, the Lola-Aston in it's present form only has a limited lifespan in ALMS, and the V8 Vantage needs a lot of development for GTE, then maybe they'll concentrate for a while on their customer cars (GT4 Vantage and the new GT3 Vantage V12) until either a new model comes on stream for GTE or they can do something under the 2014 LMP regulations?

[JAG]

Some of the Aston drivers have apparently said they'll be in GTE next year.

[Pandamasque]

I wonder if Klien stays.